Happy Thursday

I caught up with an industry friend of mine, Sandia Chang, on the podcast recently.  Sandia and I worked together at Bouley in NYC years ago, before she went on to work for Thomas Keller at Per Se and then overseas at Noma.  She switched from cooking to front of house and beverage.  We both ended up opening a hot dog restaurant coincidentally, though Sandia's was sparked from an insight about the versatility of Champagne.  Her and her husband, Chef James Knappett went on to also open Kitchen Table in London, garnering 2 Michelin stars.  Through all of this, Sandia became both an expert in Champagne but also an advocate for 'grower' Champagne, opting for the small producers who grow their own grapes as opposed to the big houses that primarily purchase from other farms and produce en masse.

I like to believe that you should index everyone's advice, but never directly take anyone's.  There is very rarely a black and white / right or wrong way to how things can be accomplished.  It's personal to you and your background, your skill set, your interests and beliefs.  Sandia brought up a mental model between two of the most famous restaurants in the world, Thomas Keller's Per Se - and Rene Redzepi's Noma, that on the surface are dimaetrically opposed approaches to hospitality.  But a layer deeper, they are the same. More on that below.  

Speaking of Per Se, another TK Alumni, Chef Greg Baxtrom shares his thoughts on the value of a structured and regimented life, and the detriment and destruction it can cause to your mental health when you it's lacking, especially as a business owner when you have no one specifically telling you what to do each day.

And in the spirit of Sandia's hot dog spot in London (Bubble Dogs) and my old spot Bark Hot Dogs, with July 4th coming up next weekend, sharing below a recipe for red pepper relish.  It's the perfect condiment for a hot dog and goes great with some nice bubbly.

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🎙️ The meez Podcast

Sandia Chang on grower champagne, Per Se vs Noma, and working with your spouse

Sandia shares stories and lessons learned from her time at Per Se and Noma.  She ended up in London with her husband Chef James Knappett, after they met at Per Se and fell in love.  He had to head across the pond per some visa issues and ended up at Noma where they reunited, and the rest is history.  She has some incredible lessons learned and hueristics of how hospitality at the highest level feels, carrying those with her when her and James opened now 2 Michelin Star Kitchen Table and a Champagne focused Hot Dog restaurant called Bubble Dogs.

She's one of the loudest voices for grower champagne over the big houses, and she runs her own champagne online store called Bubbleshop now.   The foundations of our conversation revolved around two opposing views on how to accomodate guests, learning more about champagne and the growers who are making waves, in addition to of course just a nice excuse to catch up with an old friend after many years.

• Bouley to Per Se to Noma, front of house
• Per Se says yes, Noma says no.
• Why "no" can be better hospitality
• Grower champagne vs the big houses
• Why hot dogs actually work with bubbles
• Building Bubble Dogs and a Kitchen Table with her husband
  

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👉 Watch the full episode

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🤔🌶️ Hot Take

The Per Se 'Yes' mentality vs the Noma 'No' mentality

Sandia shares Keller's philosophy of saying YES to guest requests, and going beyond yes, to an extreme.  When Mick Jagger wants potatoes with every course, that's not just a yes, it's a different style of potato prepared precisely to match each dish and making the guest feel as though they are the most important person in the world no matter who they.

I have experienced this myself.  I vividly remember my first meal at Per Se, and telling one of my friends dining with me how much if love Château-Grillet (A northern Rhone Viognier white).  I was almost certain there was no wait staff around.  3 courses later, the whole turbot came to the table, and the sommelier approached with a bottle of, you guessed it, Château-Grillet (we were not charged extra, and had already purchased a wine pairing).  

Sandia then shares the approach at Noma, which leans towards 'No'.  Not to be difficult, not to exclude.  But rather, they are steadfast in a vision and a standard of execution that is unwavering.  Rather than make a cocktail ad-hoc that is not part of their repoitoire, they prefer to offer other suggestions to the guest.  The amount of R&D and effort that goes into every single detail of every dish and experience for them means, things outside of that purview they can not greenlight as the standard that you likely traveled very far to experience at the restaurant.

Two seemingly opposing approaches, but with the same intent.  Define what you value and you believe to be excellence in your view, and execute against that.  Many ways to get to the top of the tree of great hospitality.

As an aside - I appreciate of course, given the history of what staff have shared regarding abuse at Noma among other restaurants, that this becomes a very delicate subject and can come off as not only ironic but hard to talk about.  I am separating the two as we do with all things, nothing in this world is black and white.  I have been in that very same situation and know how it feels and I share similar sentiment that it all needs to stop.  And I hold that two things can be true at the same time.

👉 Watch the clip on LinkedIn

👉 Watch on Instagram

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📔 Chef Notes

Structure isn't just productivity; it's fortitude.

Greg Baxtrom said the brigade kitchen and his years in Boy Scouts not only kept him in line, but he later realized that this structure also was a big proponent of his mental health. Prep lists every morning are very clear on what to do that day, a ticket comes out of the machine and tells you what to do next. The day he owned his own restaurants and nobody wrote that list, he started to lose grip.  So much so that he gravitated to alcohol as an escape that ended up with him in rehab.

Most people underestimate how much a regimented, structured workday does for you. Especially once the guardrails come off and you get to design your own day and prioritize your time however you want, having that structure, or at least a mental model for how you decide where your time goes, matters more than you think.

Not just for productivity. For your mental fortitude.

👉 Watch the clip on Instagram

👉 Watch on LinkedIn

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Recipe:

Red Pepper Relish

I know ketchup is a polarizing topic for hot dogs. I'm a fan (especially Heinz). But for those of you who want to step up your hot dog game, this is definitely the way to go. It's inspired by hot dogs Brandon Gillis and I tasted (and he grew up with) in Connecticut, places like Frankies and Blackies.  

You'll want to make it a day ahead so it has time to set.

👉 Get the full recipe on meez

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👉 Find some time with our team here to get compliant.

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