Janello (02:31.99)
You did.
Josh Sharkey (02:48.492)
Sandwich joint. Jason worked at Mi's for quite a while and we've stayed friends. And among many other things, Jason is an incredible marketer and has a deep love for Italian food. And specifically for today, we're gonna I wanted to like dig into red sauce joints. So that's what we're gonna do. Let's do it. And we're at Danico's, like he said, in downtown, well, literally Manhattan. So Janello.
If you could help first to tell us the history of red sauce joints in America.
Janello (03:26.092)
Yeah, so it's history's long. but I'll give you the brief bullet points here where between eighteen ninety and nineteen twenty, Italians came from Italy to America. That is the big thing that everybody talks about and says, these all these Italians showed up. There was a smaller migration earlier in the eighteen hundreds. I'm gonna skip that for now because the one we all think about and know and what birthed the red sauce joint was this big migration.
Italians needed jobs and the jobs that they typically got here were dock workers and infrastructure, which were not great jobs. And so the red sauce joint was born out of them not wanting those types of jobs. And they're like, Well, I can make food and I can sell the food that I ha I used to have in Italy. And so that's how delis and pizzerias and red sauce joints sort of came to be because they didn't want that other job and they started to make restaurants.
And that then proliferated to have lots of Italian restaurants in the Little Italies in which the Italians congregated in when they came to the the United States. And that's really the birth of red sauce drinks, even pizzeria's to a large degree.
Josh Sharkey (04:40.75)
I should have asked this question first. But can you define a red sauce joint? And in that, I would like your interpretation of what are the must-haves that have to be on a red sauce joint menu and then what you think just should not be on.
Janello (04:55.278)
Great. Ooh, I w I never got that part of it, but I love this question. So I define a red sauce joint in in a very simple way. You look at the menu, and if there's anything parmed on it, you get a one check. Okay, you're you're halfway there in terms of the menu. And then if there's kalamad, if there's a mozzarella and karats, if there's a hot ante pasta or a cold antepaste, you're there. There's probably a termasu or a cannoli, and that's it.
You can have everything else could not even be quintessentially red sauce. You could have a chicken cachatory, you could have rabbit cachatory. That's fine. That's a northern Italian dish. Okay.
Josh Sharkey (05:32.206)
So lasagna doesn't need to be on them anymore.
Janello (05:34.336)
Lasagna does not need to be on the menu. Anything parmed, just one thing parmed, and it's it. So but that's that's only the food part.
Josh Sharkey (05:42.126)
I'm gonna I'm gonna cut you off for a minute because chicken parm does not sound Italian to me. I've been to Parma many times. I don't think I had chicken parm there once. Tell me about the history of Parm.
Janello (05:51.896)
No, it's
Okay. Let let's here here we go. So so the claim is that Bamonty's invented chicken chicken farm. Bom Monte's in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. I ha I talked to them a couple of times, we haven't had that conversation yet, but this thing that you said
Josh Sharkey (06:08.065)
Arm?
Janello (06:09.326)
Parm means melted mozzadel. That's what parm means. In the Italian American world. Right. So we have to we have to be very clear about Italian food and Italian American food. And what I love about this map and all this joints that I go into is that Italian American food is a cuisine of its own now. So much so that it started to export out of America. I went
To Mexico City. There's an Italian American place there. I've been in Toronto a couple times this year. There's a New York Italian place and there's an Italian American place. They write it on the menu. There's one in Glasgow. There's one in in Melbourne. So Itali Italian American food and cuisine is now its own entity. So it's not, there's no lasagna, there's no parm, there's no parmesan aregiano in a chicken parm. That's okay.
Josh Sharkey (07:07.386)
Well that actually makes sense then that a red sauce joint doesn't need to have lasagna, 'cause lasagna does exist in Italy. Yes. Chicken parm I do not think does.
Janello (07:17.706)
It doesn't, but there there are dishes.
Josh Sharkey (07:21.56)
What is the the inspiration for it? Like how did they come up with is it is it just based on Pomodoro and
Janello (07:28.046)
The reason why chicken parm exists here is and and veal parm and veal parm is a better one for us to actually talk about because most of the migration of Italians came from Italy. They were poor. They came from the poorer parts, right? They didn't have a lot of access to better types of food, the abundance of food. And here they got that. And so they started stacking things is how I like to think about it. They're like, we can we can do a veal.
Let's let's cook with veal. So like, let's fry that veal. That's great. Then like, hey, we got some beautiful mozzarella. Let's let's put that on top of it. And hey, we made this whole pot of red sauce and let's put that on top of it. So the reason why we have a lot of Italian American dishes, like even all of the all of the brajoles and sausages and meatballs and things that they put in the sauce, that's not they made a ragu in Italy, but it wasn't the same kind of thing. It was because of this abundance that they now found in the New World.
Josh Sharkey (08:25.238)
That makes sense. And I just asked our buddy AI and i the abundance thing is really plays out here. It says the dish evolved from melanzane alla Parmigiana, which is eggplant parm. Right. Cheap cheap a southern Italian dish of fried eggplant layered with tomato sauce and cheese. But in America, meat was pretty abundant obviously. So when you started
Janello (08:44.174)
And they sold in Italy they sold their chickens. They make more money where that it was better for them to sell the chicken and sell the baby cow than to eat it. So they ate melanzani, the eggplant.
Josh Sharkey (08:58.126)
Parma part I just don't understand. The the word Parm.
Janello (09:01.376)
It's like Gabagool. Why is why do people call Capacole, which is not spelt with a G, Gabagool. They only do that in Jersey, by the way, I believe, but you know, being a Long Island kid that we didn't do Gabagool. Anyway, they do that because of the dialects in which they came from, that the C's were Gs. So so yeah, there's lots of things in Italian American culture that are not really Italian.
Josh Sharkey (09:25.59)
Well, part of what I wanna do unfortunately is I w I need to get some of your tops because you well, I'm very frustrated how much you're able to travel all the time. And every time I look on one of the social platforms, you're in another city eating another fucking dinner with your beautiful wife. And because of that now you must tell me. Okay. I wanna know. I I've already seen the top five red sauce joints, so we might do that at the end. But let's hear top five chicken parms across the country.
Janello (09:53.282)
Okay, top five chicken parms across the country. Go reverse. We'll get some suspense. And we'll probably have to do top no, I can do top five. All right. We'll put 'cause we're in Danico's. I'm gonna put Dinico's at number five. Now, something you need to understand about any ranking that I do is is the chicken parm itself the best thing in the world? You you talked about this a little bit with with Maddie the other day on your p on your podcast, that this is not about
Getting a chicken with mozzarella on it and it being the best thing in the world. This is about the theater of coming to a place and getting the juice, right? So my answers also have that in mind. Like this is an amazing restaurant on Mulberry Street. They've been doing this for 30 plus years. It's it's father, son, multiple generations. Like that all adds to the thing. Totally. So number five, Danico. Number four, I'm gonna go Sodini's in San Francisco.
Excellent spot in North Beach. Number three, I'm gonna go with Junior and Sun, which is a recently remade new red sauce joint from an old sort of club in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Number two, I'm gonna go with Bamonty's. And number one, and and and anybody listening to this, if you're in a couple miles of Providence, Rhode Island, go to Camille's.
and get the chicken parm. They do they had do they do something where it stays crispy. They put the sauce on top of it and the cheese is perfectly melted and the cutlet is so perfect and crispy, it blew my mind.
Josh Sharkey (11:34.646)
So we get what makes for you a great chicken parm.
Janello (11:38.766)
I like a slightly thicker chicken. A lot of people a lot of people like a Milanese style, like real thin cutlet. I like something that's got a little bit more meat to it. And then the sauce shouldn't be shouldn't have too much spiced flavor. Different than like a Sunday sauce, I think. It's more like a marinara is what I like on it. Totally agree. And then a low moisture matz. The fancy with the with the with the fresh motz.
I don't know, too much water content for me. Not enough melt.
Josh Sharkey (12:09.08)
Yeah. See I tend to like the sauce re like cooked down a little bit more, but still a simple sauce, but then a fresh mozzarella, which kinda thins it out a bit. Then you get that kind of gloominess. Okay. But I know what you mean.
Janello (12:23.534)
That's such you're such a chef. You're such a chef.
Josh Sharkey (12:26.254)
What's your take on carbone? For the no, for the parm. Not we'll get into the new verses classically.
Janello (12:33.614)
Okay, okay. Yeah, I mean th they do a great chicken bar. They do a great everything.
Josh Sharkey (12:37.356)
That was a throwaway. what was the place we we the like the supper club we ate at in Philly?
Janello (12:43.278)
Parisi, I think. Parisi? Either Parisi or Parisi, I'm sorry. Sorry.
Josh Sharkey (12:47.286)
It was like a takeover by San Sabino, wasn't it? Don Angie and San Sabino.
Janello (12:49.526)
It was a takeover by Don Angie. They did the Don Angie meet I don't think San Sabino was open yet when they
Josh Sharkey (12:55.576)
Did the they did the the prawn arm, remember?
Janello (12:59.884)
they did. That's a San Sabino thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But they did But they did the lasagna too. Yeah. The Don Angie was.
Josh Sharkey (13:06.035)
I love a good lasagna. I love a good lasagna. Five lasagnas.
Janello (13:08.014)
Lasagna. Five lasagnas. We might have to do top three. I don't even know. Cause like so let me let me let me say this. I don't like a smothered lasagna. So the alforno style food in the red sauce world is like, okay, we put some pasta or we put something in the thing, and then we put parm and we put sauce all over it and we bake the whole thing. Not that I don't like that stuff, but on a lasagna, I like to see the lines, I like to see the layers.
So top three lasagnas. There's a place in DC called Lardante that that really makes like a show of it where it's like almost looks like a skewer because that's how the lasagna is shaped, and you can see all the lines. Like that's pretty cool. We'll go Don Angie number two, just because that's super unique, also. And it's super delicious. It's like the highest quality lasagna ingredients I think I've ever had. and then my number one lasagna.
Josh Sharkey (14:09.122)
While you're thinking about it, you know what I really like? I like lasagna verde. You know, with like where you take the ink kale and spinach and then a ton of bechamel, gota and you know, nic no red sauce. Actually, Brandon Gillis, my business partner from Bark, taught me how to make this lasagna verde. He used to make it at home. He's he's like quintessential Italian American. And I never had it before and it was so fucking good. Have you ever had lasagna verde?
Janello (14:35.246)
I'm not not a fan. I just don't consider that like that wouldn't even be in my thought process of a top five lasagna list. Have you had two sheet lasagna at Rolos? So like that's that's been on their menu for forever, but now it's a little viral, like people like, we gotta go for the two sheet lasagna. And he th Rolo's is a live fire restaurant, right? So like that's a pretty solid and there's no I don't believe there's any red sauce in that. But the pasta itself has I think spinach in it. So it's a green Yeah.
Josh Sharkey (15:05.038)
Here's a another thing, so we'll we'll we'll we'll diverge a bit. I've never had a menac did you say menagoat? Menicati? Never had one that I like fuck that's so good.
Janello (15:17.522)
yeah, like well they're like, all right, let's take some stuff and put some regatta in it and then we'll call it a what's a
Josh Sharkey (15:23.754)
It's got an identity crisis. Like are you a Blintz? Are you a lasagna? Are you a like what? It's like a little bit two in between, you know?
Janello (15:31.598)
What do you feel how do you feel about stuffed shells? Same?
Josh Sharkey (15:34.542)
I like a stuff show.
Janello (15:36.024)
So how's it different than the managottia?
Josh Sharkey (15:37.868)
But I don't love I never had one where I'm like, my god, this is so good. Yeah. You know, whereas like a lasagna. Uhhuh. I have a Parm. Uhhuh. You know, I love that that that that from Parm.
Janello (15:47.694)
Are you are you advert wh what do you how do you feel about a cannoli?
Josh Sharkey (15:51.254)
They're good. again, I've never been like blown away by an equal Here here's the thing. I feel
Janello (15:55.874)
you might be a a r not a regatta filled guy. Everything we're talking about is a regatta filled thing.
Josh Sharkey (16:01.25)
That is true. There are some things that I I I like Lasagna Verde, which has a lot of raccade in it. But I used to be obsessed with tiramisu because I spent a bunch of time and not a bunch, like a month or so, in Bologna. And I ate at this restaurant called Trattoria Anna Maria a couple of times, and it's just literally like four grandmas in a corner making pasta and you would very classic, totally Miam Broto, all the kind of thing but they made this tiramisu that was just the brightest yellow orange and it was just so good.
And then I was just like I I always wanted tiramisu to the point where like I didn't care if it was good. I would just always order tiramisu no matter what. I don't care where it was from. I would just always eat tiramisu. I kinda like have faded a bit on the tiramisu, but I still think it's one of those things that like even a mediocre tiramisu is pretty good. Whereas like a mediocre cannoli, I'm like, nah, I don't even want to eat it. Fair.
Janello (16:50.254)
'Cause the cannoli thing is the the whole thing about when was it filled and how long did it sit and all that stuff. So that that's a big part of making a good cannoli. The point of a tiramisu is to make it and let it sit and it gets better 'cause it melds together.
Josh Sharkey (17:03.692)
What okay, top three tier masseuse.
Janello (17:05.818)
We gotta gotta go we gotta go back to something before you pop around. All right, couple couple things to to tidy this up. One, top lasagna parkside in Corona, Queens. Excellent old school spot. Almost like was it people parkside? Like you don't know if you don't know if you know.
Josh Sharkey (17:08.194)
We didn't get to do your last lasagna.
Josh Sharkey (17:24.824)
Best lasagna uses dried pasta or fresh pasta?
Janello (17:27.821)
Great question. I think it uses fresh. I I I but but traditionally we grew up with with the dried pods. Like we did the whole thing. Like that was a big deal in my house growing up. My mom was like, We're making lasagna today. My brother and I would get into it and get all excited and always dry.
Josh Sharkey (17:30.122)
Yeah, me too.
Josh Sharkey (17:42.158)
Fun fact, I still have the lasagna pan that you brought to our house many years ago for a lasagna that you brought that was a delicious lasagna and I still use it today.
Janello (17:52.622)
That's amazing. Yeah. I brought that I believe for your f first child's
Josh Sharkey (17:59.138)
Birth. Yeah, something rather than like here.
Janello (18:00.53)
Like I tend to do that. I'm like, they just had a kid. They've never had a kid before. They may they may forget to eat. So like or they may not have time to eat. That's really what it was. And I was like, let me bring them back.
Josh Sharkey (18:06.283)
Yeah.
Josh Sharkey (18:13.292)
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Janello (19:16.654)
Okay, the other thing I wanted to go back to though was my definition of a red sauce joint is does it have a parm on the menu? Does it have a calamade or some antepasta on the app and does it have a turmasu or cannoli? That's the food side. The other side is does it have a couple of pictures on the wall and is there some version of a story of why it's there? And that's what I really look for building this map.
Josh Sharkey (19:40.022)
Do those people have to be associated with the spot or could it be like Frank Sinatra and
Janello (19:44.846)
Totally could be Frank Sinatra. Okay. And typically nobody puts a picture of Frank Sinatra that's a press picture of Frank Sinatra, unless it's the one where he's eating spaghetti. They put a picture that's like some version of like why they want that picture on the wall of Frank Sinatra. They're like, we went to that Caesar's Sands party in 1962 or whatever the thing was.
Josh Sharkey (20:05.486)
Radio?
Janello (20:07.02)
Never been. I've been invited four or five times now. And you know, I I don't know if for those who don't know how Rayos works, is Rayos, there's no reservations for Rayos. You can't just walk to Rayos and get one. You can't call Rayos and get a reservation. All the tables are notoriously owned by someone and then they're managed by that person. And so you have to know somebody who owns a table and then get invited to sit at that table every single night. That's New York.
Vegas is different. Is Vegas still open? I don't know. Anyway, I've been invited many times. I have not gone to Reyos. And controversially, it's probably not the best red sauce food that you could ever
Josh Sharkey (20:49.774)
I've invited as well and haven't been and and but I've only heard really good things. That is as good as they as they say.
Janello (20:56.302)
Because the room is the one of the most amazing rooms ever. We went during the pandemic for a short window, they started doing delivery. Then I was on that front step and I got all the delivery of all the rayos. And of course, I'm not gonna judge a dining room experience with a delivery food. But it it was delicious and it was fantastic and it was great, but just as delicious and fantastic as bauxite or whatever.
Josh Sharkey (21:21.74)
Now I'd like to do a little segment called In Memory of the five red sauce joints that have closed that you miss the most.
Janello (21:31.562)
In memory of. This is great.
Josh Sharkey (21:34.094)
Remember Frost? 'Cause I think that closed.
Janello (21:36.492)
Mm-frost closed. So frost so Frost is on my list because I lived a block and a quarter from Frost when I lived in Williamsburg. So we'll put let's put Frost at number five. They're all gonna be New York because I've spent most of my time here. So the ones that closed are the ones that are here. Wha what was the what's the one the one that you loved? Queen. Queen. Yeah. Queen was awesome. Their sign was killer. I think that that sign still is in the sign museum.
Josh Sharkey (21:57.514)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to Dave.
Josh Sharkey (22:05.102)
The most unassuming location. Like on Atlantic Avenue, you would never assume. Yeah. But that was a great one. Their Vongelay and their Clam's Casino were both really, really good.
Janello (22:10.094)
That was a great one.
Janello (22:14.52)
Here's one that's a twist, and it's just because half of my s family is Sicilian, and so I feel like connected to the old Sicilian restaurant that was in New York, Bar Fernando, which is now reopened. So I don't remember what year it closed, but a couple years ago, after a hundred and plus years. And it's
Josh Sharkey (22:33.548)
That's nuts.
Janello (22:37.162)
Queen was Queen was up there, but I don't think it hit a hundred. But Sal who runs Cafe Spaghetti and he he he reopened it recently and kept a lot of the old stuff. You know, I I I love the new spot, but I also miss the old Bar Fernando. What else
Josh Sharkey (22:55.982)
Closed. Yeah, two more. You started at five. You could have done three, but
Janello (23:00.046)
should have prepped me better for like we're gonna do a lot of top tens.
Josh Sharkey (23:03.138)
You know, I want this to be the cuff. New versus classic red sauce joints. Love this. So I just take any direction you want, but obviously there's you know, there's a bunch of new ones. There's the Don Angie's, there's the Carbones. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of great ones. And then there's the really classic ones, like a Bomontes. What is your take on do they both need to exist? If so, w what do you like about either?
Janello (23:27.534)
They both need to exist 100%. What I see is happening, and what I mentioned earlier that Italian American cuisine is now being exported out of America, this ties into that answer. So as the red sauce joint became more and more popular and Italian food became a thing that most everybody through every culture ate at, in New York at least, and I think that the this is this is true probably for the the country.
There was a point in time in the 80s where like northern Italian food started to become the Italian restaurants. And the red sauce joints, there weren't as many of them. But what's happening now is that that Italian American classic red sauce joint is seeing a whole rebirth and it's being reborn by the this new, newest generation of of chefs and restaurateurs. And it's a nod to the old school joints, which
I love and I think is super necessary and great because it's continuing the Italian American culture thing that is truly tied to that red sauce joint and people are championing that. So it's it's it's seeing a different version of what was the old school spot. Like when I when I talk about old, old spots, I also talk about Italians in the forties, thirties, forties, fifties trying to be American. And because they did that, you'll often go to like a steakhouse.
You're like steaks and chops, right? It's run by an Italian and you'll look at all the steaks and all that stuff. And then there'll be this part of the menu that's a complete red sauce joint. And you're like, what's going on here? They're well, we we're Italian. That's what we put that there. But they were trying to be American. And so that was their way of opening an American restaurant, but still having all of the food that they like to eat and that everybody else kind of likes to eat, also. And so now this take on the new red sauce joint is not a stakes and chops thing, but it's more
They're like, well, what version of that do I want to do? So so what Scott and Angie are doing at Don Angie's and a little bit on the Sansabina, but I feel like Don Angie's is on the nose of of of their red sauce joint world and they talk about it like that. They took Italian American, their upbringing, which they are the newer generation, right? And they put their their version of it out. And that's why there's a lasagna that's done differently. But it's delicious and it's amazing. And I feel like Mario did the same thing at Carbone. Mario is on
Janello (25:51.446)
Andrew Schultz's podcast and is this is where I heard this. And he talked about Carbone being akin to theater. And this is where I was listening to your podcast with Maddie and and you guys are talking about it being like a spa. And like, that's why you go to a restaurant. You go for the show. And year years ago I ran a supper club. So a an illegal restaurant that I ran out of random places that I cooked and I had no business doing any of this, but it was 20 seats and I paired it with a movie. Nobody knew what the menu was.
And they showed up in droves and the the there was twenty five thousand people on a list who wanted to come to a twenty person dinner that I did once a month. But they did that because they were going to a show. They were going for an experience. They weren't going to eat dinner and tell me how they wanted their steak. Yeah. Yeah. And so Mario talks about carbone being that same thing, almost personified the old school Italian American thing.
Josh Sharkey (26:46.882)
Totally agree. And that and I think that new red sauce joint like new like new age red side joints end up being better than the classic for a couple of reasons. When they're when they're done that way. What what's beautiful about what Mario and and Rich have done is first of all, what's not just beautiful but really commendable is that they are incredible technical chefs. They've worked for, you know, like you know, Balute and and Carmelini, and they are just technically like, you know, exceptional cooks and chefs.
And most chefs, you know, make it about the food, which of course the food has to be incredible. but they were so smart about creating this entire narrative, down to like the clothes that were that the waiters wore, how they, you know, presented themselves, how you feel the minute you walk in the door, and every s every piece of the puzzle was, to your point, like red sauce personified, but like to to an nth degree. And it it's not just about like the
You the lasagna. They may not have the best lasagna. They may not have the regatoni ala vodka in the in the country, but this experience that you feel, and it isn't just like great service. It isn't just great food. It's this narrative. That's what I love about the red sauce joint sort of new age and any any sort of style of restaurant where like a new generation takes it is it's what also makes like great food great. Is you can take something that people know and associate with and love and
Make a better version of the thing that you already know that like sort of redefines what you actually think of that thing. That's really hard to do. I think that's and I it there are when you see it happen it's pretty it's pretty beautiful. I it's also really fucking hard because every single detail has to be right and you have to execute well.
Janello (28:35.438)
Every single detail, people have no idea how many details there are. And then the ones that you also add to it, like just running a restaurant, period, there's a million details. You gotta get those all right, do those all really well consistently every single day. But then when you add that narrative piece to it, you're adding more details. So again, a carbone example, when there's no meatballs on the menu, but carbone makes meatballs.
So when you order spaghetti and the waiter's like, Do you want some meatballs with that? How many meatballs? What do you think? Two, three? That's a detail that the server needs to know that that's a thing that they say and when to say it. But that's an ex part of the experience for the guest that feels like, somebody's making me meatballs back there. Like that just adds to the theater of going there, which is why you go there, spend a lot of money, because it's expensive, try and get in for months or whatever it is, but you can't sit in the front row of the hottest Broadway.
play at the drop of hat either. That's how that works.
Josh Sharkey (29:39.38)
Do old school red sauce joints have to have crappy wine?
Janello (29:43.106)
They have to have at least a section that is crappy wine, yeah. And they have to have at least one bottle of of wine that is in the the the whisk. Yeah, that can't they thing.
Josh Sharkey (29:50.318)
That bothers me, by the way. Like when we go, like I was at this at this really great pizza joint. It's like really good pizza in Connecticut. Not Sally's or Peppy's, but but really good. And I had brought wine with me because I can drink wine again. I don't think I told you this. And I had I forgot what I brought with me. Something really, really, really good. It was a Barolo. I had it at home and it opened up. And then I I just brought it with just in case because I saw their wine list and it was like
Josh wine, you know, their brand Josh and like Kendall Jackson. I'm like and I was like and I just went in and I was like, Hey, is it okay if I drink this and I'll and I'll buy a bottle of whatever wine you you know you have and give it back to you and they just said no, we won't you can't do it. So I'm sitting here with this like incredible pizza and yeah, you know, I didn't drink any of this crappy wine, but like, why? Why do you have to do that? I think old school showing should just now just decide, you know what, we don't need to have crappy wine anymore.
Janello (30:48.514)
Well, I I think that's part of why a lot of them close ultimately. Like there's three reasons that I've discovered in in going to all these spots and mapping them all out on the Red South map. Is one, there's nobody to take over the reins. Two, the rent structure changes and it's unaffordable. It's three, they're not progressing and resting on their laurels and and in in most cities in this country right now, there's
A very vibrant and fresh food scene. Like food, since the food network has been in invented, food has radically changed from a consumption thing to a celebrated experience, I think. And it's why restaurants go viral and all sorts of things and act more like theaters, which is I think great. But you can't have crappy Kiante in whiskered, you know, what taffeta and serve that with
Really good pizza, or not even really good pizza. And so that's another reason why I think I'm excited that there's new red sauce joints that are being created.
Josh Sharkey (31:56.362)
Even if the old ones have the their kids come up and, you know, make some changes, I think that would be good. Let me ask you a completely different question now, just because you're sitting here and you are one of the better marketing people I've ever met. How important is a name for a business?
Janello (32:12.566)
It's very important. Because I think that the name becomes something that people remember when the experience and the product and the service is something that they're excited about. So I always use the example of Google. Like it's it's a made-up word, it's not, they have a whole reason why, blah, blah, blah. But what does Google mean? Like I worked at Yahoo when Google was being born, and we were the search engine for the internet. And then Google's trying to be like and people.
Josh Sharkey (32:13.848)
Why?
Janello (32:40.802)
People, Yahoo were I heard them like what's this Google? Like when Google became something that everybody started to use, then Google became a verb. So it doesn't matter what the name is. It just matters how people feel about the product service and ultimately the experience.
Josh Sharkey (32:57.102)
I feel like the caveat is you have to pronounce it. People I think I've seen that's corrupt dialogue, you just have you have a name and everybody pronounces it wrong.
Janello (33:05.538)
Well, I think that there's missteps you can do with naming. Like, yeah, if you can't pronounce the name, sure, that's probably not a good choice for a name. The thing I like to do the least when working with companies is is name them or help them name them. And when we get into branding and they're like, Well, maybe our name should change to this, or it it doesn't matter. Like let's make the thing that you're doing great and let's make the customers really want that thing. And then they will say, I'm gonna Uber.
Even when they're calling a lift, like that's what happens. So focusing on the name is the wrong place to focus. But yes, make sure you can pronounce it.
Josh Sharkey (33:43.534)
Alright. I'm really glad we did this. I realized that we didn't eat any red sauce joint food while we were doing it and I'm about to go to another red sauce joint.
Janello (33:45.591)
I am too.
Janello (33:53.549)
Maybe maybe you'll have some then.
Josh Sharkey (33:55.458)
I might, but I'm grateful for you as a friend, and I'm glad we finally made this happen. And I think you'll probably be on the show again.
Janello (34:02.19)
Thanks for having me on. I'm very excited to sit with you as a friend and as a conversationalist.
Josh Sharkey (34:07.252)
And thank you to Danikos for letting us record in there upstairs. Is this a private dining room? What is this? Just a
Janello (34:13.29)
Where we're up in their sort of extended space, but they're mostly they they do parties up here. Yeah. But yeah, Deniko's I I'm here for the Mazaran Karotz once a month.
Josh Sharkey (34:23.009)
We will come back for that. All right, Holmes.
Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you liked this episode or any other ones, you can actually check out more of this at getmes.com slash josh. That's G-E-T-M-E-E-Z slash J-O-S-H. I have my podcast there, the meez Podcast, plus some other shows and interviews. Starting to write some stories and blog posts, some recipes, recaps, things like that. So I think you'll enjoy it. Again, it's getme's dot com slash josh.
Double Easy.com slash J-O-S-H. Thank you very much. Very grateful for all of you.
