Matthew Conway (07:15.446)regenerative farming conference this weekend in Charleston, where some of the top regenerative farmers come from all over the US. And it was the inaugural, so it never been done before. And I'm not a regenerative farmer, and I'm not really somebody who talks about farming when it comes to wine. So I was there to support a lot of friends and people that were there, and I learned a lot. But as I was reflecting on that in our podcast, a lot of, I feel like,
and it eventually gets to the $9 beer with Keith next week, that oftentimes from whatever your guys' background is or current situation, that whether you're doing it to play devil's advocate or because you believe in it, you're taking this very linear approach. You talk about vertical integration. You talk about it being better if one person owns every strain of the thing. We talk about how, you know, when I was talking about wages and wage inequality, you were like, well, you know,
If you looked at P &Ls and what labor represents of that, and at one point in time, when I was talking about healthcare, somebody stepped in and said, well, let me talk about it from like a big operator standpoint of how much that's going to cost. And then I sit in this conference all week long and everybody's talking about circular integration. They're talking about how, you know, the manure from the animal helps the soils stay fertile. So the person growing the grain doesn't have to use chemicals.
which then feeds better cattle or whatever livestock and then comes back around to the person who's eating it, who's now drinking a glass of water that doesn't have Roundup in the well. And that circular, secular model is so much more conducive to a healthy, healthy world for us. And, you know, I brought up a couple of times about how cheap beer is in Europe still and how I believe Cherokee lives in this fantasy land that sometime
some of these costs that are being saved by whatever technology are actually gonna come back to us. And every time I've maintained, they always go to the man. They do. The man always takes the leftover change. It never gets kicked back to us peasants. And we can have a whole conversation on politics on an episode, which I don't think we need to do or is important in the conversation as much, meaning how politics affects the decisions of Ag and all that other stuff. But I think what's more important here is...
Matthew Conway (09:33.856)It seems like we've talked more about Tesla on the show or Tesla stocks than we have about like the effect of our decisions on the end consumer. And I think that if I am not the guy who's supposed to be yelling at the clouds stuck in time, that I'd like to be the guy that realizes that a lot of our conversations that revolve around food, beverage, hospitality, and how we integrate that all into a more successful society. need to realize that the profit,
any savings have not come back to us for decades and that all of this vertical integration models that may make things cheaper or easier for people to get food probably aren't better for the planet and likely, if not guaranteed, aren't better for the end consumer. So since you guys take this approach, what's your opinion?
Joshua Sharkey (10:20.654)Well, there's a lot of threads to pull here. but first of all, first of all, I'm even trying to think which thread to pull. One, you said, okay, it all goes back to the man. Okay. I want to know who the man is. You just said that that beer costs a dollar and then somebody sold it to you for $8. So is the restaurant the man? Because the restaurant paid a dollar and they charged you eight. Does that mean the restaurant is the man? Yeah.
Matthew Conway (10:25.525)I'm thinking about it at all.
Matthew Conway (10:47.042)In this case?
Michael Jacober (10:51.098)So the guy who owns the restaurant is the man
Matthew Conway (10:54.526)Is staff enough money to eat out at a restaurant on the weekend or have healthcare is now charging a 80 % markup on a product that has a shelf stable and has no
Joshua Sharkey (11:07.502)We don't we don't know if that if that particular person does pay his staff well or not or what they what they and the benefits they get but generally speaking the fact that he's charging eight dollars for a one dollar beer I think is good because our margins in restaurants are incredibly compressed only because of Some ceiling that has been created of how much people will pay for the experience of a restaurant so even if you're selling whatever like a gnocchi appetizer and it costs, you know
It costs you two dollars, not including any labor or anything like that. Right. You know, can't there's only so much you can charge for that. But all of these things, you know, if it was any other business model, you charge the markup that's required to be a profitable business. In our case, know, consumers only pay so much. So if they would pay more, then we would charge more because restaurants barely make ends meet. And I don't really buy the argument of like all the money is going to the owner and.
We've all owned restaurants and let's be honest, there's not a lot there. There's not a lot of extra there. Some restaurants do have far better EBITDA, far better profits and great top line. We can't just sort of blanket statements say that all of those restaurants are just keeping the dollars and not taking care of their staff. But I think the bigger question though is from everything that you've said, I completely believe in circular agriculture and
and the sort of natural progression of, you know, animals, you know, poop and that poop becomes fertilizer, that fertilizer takes care of the land. Now they don't have to use chemicals. That stuff tastes better. And then, you you have better prices because you don't have to pay for the chemicals. All those things, you know, all those things are great. I'm not quite sure how you're correlating that to the supply chain system, but I don't know. My biggest question is just like, what do you mean by the man? Like who's this like person that's getting all the benefit?
Matthew Conway (13:04.364)Well, again, I can pull up statistics. don't have my computer set up the way that you do about the percentage of New York employees that actually receive healthcare benefits. think it's well less than 10%. I think section is 6 % range. So it is okay and easy to make the assumption that the guy at the bar that owns it, that's taking $8 profit on a dollar beer, isn't passing that along, or at least at 95 % clip, they're not passing that along.
Not to mention that in every other civilized nation, nobody would be willing to pay 80 % markup on a product that they want to consume quickly. And when you go to Europe, there's places that can't even get over another 50 euro on the beer. It's like going over $3 is whatever. that's like local brew beer in a big mug type situation. In Japan, Sam, looking at pricing right there right now, it's like, you can get beers for what they're supposed to be, which is in the normal margins.
five years ago in New York when I was still there, you would charge $5 for that dollar and 16 beer you spent. The beer hasn't changed, the price has gone up. When I talk about the man in the other context, we've had several conversations where you're talking about how ultimately the intelligence that we have, that we're gathering through AI and other abilities to be, to infuse tech into the food world is going to create savings by being efficient.
And that eventually those savings are going to fall back into the restaurant's pocket. Who's going to pass that onto the guests. And I'm telling you, no, the man in that case is the people who created the intelligence to make things more efficient. And that, that those dollars have never fallen into my restaurant. Pocket. And I don't have the option to pass that onto my guests because it never hits my pocket. The people who create the overarching brilliance, regardless of what that is, are usually the people who keep that all for themselves.
and it doesn't actually make it to the end consumer.
Joshua Sharkey (14:59.298)You mean that like the founder of Claude should give money to restaurants? Is that what you mean?
Matthew Conway (15:05.814)I believe that if what you're saying is accurate, that when a company is sophisticated enough to streamline a process, that there's major savings by being more efficient, your stance has been, we're going to see that trickle down to the end consumer sitting at the table. And I don't know who the man is in Claude. I don't believe whoever that is. And that's why we're seeing the huge wealth inequality between
working class people and very wealthy people. I don't, again, get out of the policy, which just says that unless people can afford to drink out, we're wondering why alcohol sales have never been lower. Most people can't stomach drinking a $9, 12 ounce Modelo. That's insanity to them.
supported.
Joshua Sharkey (15:53.233)My contention was that this is capitalism. That no matter what things get more efficient, we are able to operate with better margins. We can find ways to save. We find ways to like waste less. We can find ways to optimize labor. We can use analysis to understand when to schedule people at the right times, the right places and the right people. All those things are going to result in better margins. The decision
of what to do with those margins is on the restaurant. that's bottom line. It's on the restaurant. What to do with those margins. First of all, the owners on the restaurant decide what tech they want to use to deploy into their business to make sure they can have these efficiencies. And then they can decide, okay, if my EBITDA, now like my four-wall EBITDA on my 10-unit group now went from 7 % to 11%, I have 4%. What do I want to do with that? That's their decision. And then that's capitalism. Because if there's two competing...
businesses and one of them decides I'm going to take that 4 % Delta and invest it in my team and the other one says I'm going to take that 4 % Delta and take more profits then the employees can decide I'm going go to that restaurant because they invest in their team and this one invests in profits and that's the that's the beauty of like of a free market is then they get to decide.
Michael Jacober (17:06.414)Yeah. The other side is, not like, to use Matt as a sort of, again, I'm not the most political person out there, but I think Matt's perspective right now represents like, for a lack of a better word, like the, like a lazy man's point of view. It's like, well, this beer costs a dollar and this restaurant's charging me $9. That's not fair. Like, that's not fair. There is so much that goes into the pricing of that.
nine dollar beer, right? When I look back to my, you know, single unit operating days, I remember doing the math. was like the cheapest beer that I had on the menu had a direct correlation to my overall Bev cost. And like, if I, if I rose my, cheapest beer price, a dollar, magically, my beverage cost would, my average ticket or beverage per ticket would go up a dollar. So that like is a very critical.
you know, a critical decision. If, if someone is willing to sit down and when we drink a beer, it's not just the beer that we're drinking, right? It's the room that we're drinking in. It's the staff that's serving that beer. It's which relates directly to labor costs, which relates directly to occupancy costs. So a restaurant that's paying a, you know, 12 % occupancy costs on their top line, you know, they're going to try to make as much margin on a product that isn't manufactured.
in the four walls, right? The best part about, you know, selling beer is you literally buy it for X. You have someone just do this and serve it. It's a great business. And I can't wait to talk to Keith about that business because he's been doing it for, you know, over a decade. It's like one of the greatest businesses. So to go back and say, all right, that $8 margin in between, you know, the, the nine and the $1 cost is just unfair. I think.
Matthew Conway (19:03.33)I said those words.
Michael Jacober (19:04.59)Well, you did say it goes, it goes like, it's not fair that someone has can't afford to drink that $9 beer.
Matthew Conway (19:13.166)I said that they they don't want to we're
Joshua Sharkey (19:16.088)But then, but again, they don't want to go down the street and go
Michael Jacober (19:19.246)Buy a six dollar beer or don't go out. Buy six pack. What happened? Great.
Matthew Conway (19:22.702)Thanks
Alcohol sales have never been lower. The people are-
Michael Jacober (19:27.758)But that has nothing to with the restaurant. That's macro trend. That's not a price issue. That's like the entire industry is shrinking. It's not the restaurant.
Joshua Sharkey (19:37.102)But also, Mike, know, like the, if you're gonna charge $8 for that beer versus $6 or $5, you have to have a reason to do it. And people will either do it or not. like, there's a $6, I don't drink beer anymore, but like, let's just say there's a, you know, there's a six point IPA here and one here and it's six bucks here and it's eight bucks here, but at Matt's restaurant, it's $8. But when I go there, I just feel better. like, staff is like checking on me. like, I like get it quicker and like they're just...
Matthew Conway (20:06.744)Sure, sure, but let me distill the argument here. You're saying, it's okay for them because it's so hard to make money to charge that much for a beer because there's another option down the street. And I say, well, people, you said it's unfair. It's not unfair. People just don't want to do it. And you're like, that's okay. And then I'm like, but that's why beverage sales are down. No, that's not the reason.
Michael Jacober (20:26.958)But that's not why beverage sales are down. You're drawing incorrect correlations. Beverage sales are down because the entire market is shrinking. The entire beverage market is shrinking. can ask... Go ask your local beer rep. Go ask your local wine rep.
Matthew Conway (20:42.862)drinking. That's a whole nother conversation we're getting into. But remember, like I spend my entire career in the beverage sector. I don't care about Tesla stocks. I don't care about microphones. It's the only thing that I do. you want to talk about the alcohol market shrinking, it's because costs have gone so far high that people can't sell their wines or beers or whatever. And it's literally, I mean, there's a lot of other factors.
Michael Jacober (20:48.706)My ex.
Michael Jacober (21:09.974)Is this at retail or in restaurants?
Matthew Conway (21:13.07)across the board in the United
Michael Jacober (21:14.22)okay so you think it's a global you think people are drinking less you
Joshua Sharkey (21:17.832)Why are mocktails then like increasing?
Michael Jacober (21:20.736)You think people are drinking less alcohol? I don't. Okay. Strictly because, and it's strictly, you think it's strictly because of costs. You don't think, you don't think there's another force that's. I think that.
Matthew Conway (21:23.544)think they are.
Matthew Conway (21:32.942)There's a lot of factors in any big moving ship and there's a lot of things that we could discuss, but I'd go back before we finished that, if you want to, to you said, well, that's a lazy way of thinking. And I would flip that around and say, the fact that you think the only way an operator has to make his margins to be a successful business is continue to rate. And I've sat in the meetings my whole career where the owner's like,
We need to charge just two more dollars for these five items that are our best selling by the glass cocktail and beer so that we can make our margins. To what end? And you're making it seem like there's not models that are just across the ocean or even north of the border of us where it actually works and they're
Michael Jacober (22:15.02)So what's this utopia? Like where does it actually work? Is it in Europe?
Matthew Conway (22:20.268)I think it works, I think it works in Canada, Mexico, Asia, Europe? Yes, there's no other country that's charging $10 for a fucking 12 ounce beer. Fine, Miwa. It doesn't, it doesn't happen.
Michael Jacober (22:32.51)First of all, you can 100 % go to Europe and pay $10 to $12 for a beer, depending on the room that you're sitting in. Go order a beer at the Creone in Paris. How much do think that's going to cost you?
Matthew Conway (22:43.886)And you can always make an argument for the 1%. I was talking about an everyday beer that you're going to get at an everyday establishment, likened to a 12 ounce Medela can that should be no more than $5 at any markup.
Michael Jacober (22:57.196)And where did you buy this modello can?
Matthew Conway (23:00.958)at a bar on Second Avenue in the East Village.
Michael Jacober (23:05.262)Okay, so you bought it at a bar, which is not like a retail store or a QSR. Like you didn't go into Dos Toros and buy a 12 ounce beer.
Matthew Conway (23:17.784)Comparing apples to apples, I go into a bar in Europe or anywhere else that I go and you sit down outside and it's usually somewhere between 250 and 350 euro for a pint, which is usually a large handle pint of beer for that was actually brewed locally. So to pay $10, 11 bucks with tip by the way. And in Europe, I don't have to pay the tip. So now I'm being asked to pay for the staff that you're claiming is a, so like,
I'm not anti-capitalist, but there has to also be some logic applied to how is everybody else figuring out how to get people. And part of the reason is because wages, there's less potential to make higher wages in a place like Europe as part of your normal job progression. Therefore, they have to keep pricing at restaurants more reasonable to get people to go out and people utilize going out much less there. There's a lot to unpack in this situation.
The fact that either of you would stand up for an eight dollar ninety seven cent medello retip is insane. But it's why I wanted to bring it to you.
Joshua Sharkey (24:21.614)I stand up for the right to be able to charge that. That's what I mean. It's like if they charge that and people are willing to because of what the experience they get, that's great for them. If somebody can charge $2 and that's great for them, cool. My point is more that the price is actually not, I believe in our society, there is not in restaurants. You can't really...
Matthew Conway (24:25.262)If people- Oh, I'm not telling him not to-
Joshua Sharkey (24:48.782)because it's not going to work. They'll go next door and
Matthew Conway (24:56.59)When I come to New York City, and that's what I said, the rage that I've been on for the past year is every time I come to New York City, no matter where you go from the bottom to the top, it's hard to find a place that's willing or has a beer on their menu for less than $10. So now you're priced out of having a $5 beer, whether you're at a bar on the East Village or whether you're at a fine dining restaurant.
Michael Jacober (25:19.822)What about happy hour?
Matthew Conway (25:23.224)And there's always an out here. The reality is that five years ago, pre-COVID, everybody had five and six dollar mainstream beers. And through COVID and inflation and during that time of prices going up, they never came back down. It happened in the wine industry. And to your point earlier about, you think because it's so expensive, they're not drinking. Yes, historically, and this is proven through research throughout the
history of alcohol in the United States, when one sector of alcohol got too expensive for people's liking, they switched to something else, which led to booms in other alcohol industries. So if beer became too expensive, people loomed on a cocktail because they could catch a buzz on a gin and tonic for the same price as it cost them for one or two beers. And then people got into wine and then that got expensive and they went back to micro craft local breweries, which have fallen to the wayside because the price
to brew micro-brews has become so high that to go to a brewery and get a happy flight on the weekend is now 40 bucks instead of 10 bucks. All of that stuff has made people shift, and right now we're in a situation where there's nowhere to turn to. So you'd rather turn to a mocktail or a microdose of mushroom or an edible or maybe nothing at all, drink water.
because alcohol has become so wildly expensive across the board and that is something that yes it is capitalism. don't think it's smart and you guys both seem to like be like, it's cool. Let it all fucking burn down because there's choices, but there aren't choices in the-
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I mean, look, Matt, I don't think this is binary. I'm not saying that, you know, let it all burn down. And I'm not saying one way or the other. And I pulled up while we were talking with this, I pulled up a McKinsey report on like, OK, what is actually happening with beverage in America? And there has been there's been a 13 percent decline in aggregate of all Americans, 13 percent less drinking of all Americans over the last couple of years. So like there's three and 30 million people in America of them. Let's just say, I don't know, like 50 million, 100 million drink.
That's 13 % of that. That's 13 million less drinkers. There's a big delta of just people drinking less and costs have risen. So like inflation has gone up and there's a bunch of other optionalities of like, you know, like these sort of waters and energy drinks and things like that, that have created more optionality. GLP ones is adding to it. There's just this general kind of like Gen Z, you know, macro, like social, you know, piece of like just not wanting to drink alcohol anymore. There's a, there's a lot of things that are driving it, but I think that
Joshua Sharkey (28:59.884)The idea of if we can or should charge more. I mean, in a restaurant, it's just, you know, there's no way around it. There's just no wiggle room. There's no margins. And the only place to have margins other than, you know, being as efficient as you can, which only there's a floor to that, like how efficient you can be where you have to just charge more. And everybody's willing to pay $1,100 for an iPhone. Everybody's willing to pay $40 for an Uber that's done.
the minute that you're done with that Uber, everybody's willing to pay for all of those things. But, you know, in a restaurant there's this, I believe that the problem is just like this willingness to pay what actually we should be charging. I actually think you should be charging $8 for that beer because it is, and especially because, you know, you don't make it, it's a smart move, right? It's nice margin. It's something that you can predict and that you can have an inventory. You know what it is. It's very little labor involved.
so that you can offset being able to do the better things on food, on cocktails. I just think it's a smart move. And also, you you should be paying a premium for things that like, should be paying a premium for things that otherwise just go to the store and get a Modelo. What's the difference? If you're at my restaurant where I'm paying 30, $40,000 a month in rent and I have 40, 50 people on staff and I have HVAC and I have lights and I have all these utilities and I have all these bills and then you can go to that bodega who's got one person working all day long and it costs
you $4, you can choose to do that. Or you can come to this like beast of a four wall like entity that takes so much to run. And if you want that same $4 thing, it's going to be 10.
Matthew Conway (30:39.532)Save the beer conversation for Keith. What I will say is just go to the bodega. I'm okay with this. What I'd rather turn this to, which is that both of those sentiments are just so out of touch with that as being somebody that's on the ground serving consumers every day, which I would hope that like, again, connect with people that actually go out and want to go out and drink. But more importantly, and this is what I've said on every time this has come up, if you've been in Dynex's office, Danny Meyer's office,
You make it sound like these people who have actually succeeded in the game. my God, how are they gonna pay their cook $18 an hour? Like you're walking into 200,000 square foot offices full of cubicles with multiple HR directors and lawyers on retainers and all these other things. And you guys are arguing like, my God, we can't squeeze another penny out of this. There are a lot of very successful restaurateurs that aren't even skills.
You worked for David Boulay. That dude did pretty well. I think he owned a farm in Connecticut and had a lot of things that most people and definitely not the cooks have and painting this dystopian picture that you have to charge $9 for a beer to be able to make it because that's how you're going to make your peanut work. Well, how about you don't, if you're not, rather than saying go to the bodega, why don't you say, Hey chef, why don't you cancel that photo shoot on whatever? Why don't you cancel your mansion and pay your cooks?
Joshua Sharkey (31:58.318)I'm to the bodega. I'm saying that they're that like the going to this restaurant is an experience and if we're saying that like you should only correlate the cost of this thing even if it's a bar is your only correlating the cost like the cost of what you get at that bar isn't isn't correlated to the wholesale price of it because you're literally going there to meet people to talk to have music to sit down to have a whole thing you're paying for that like you have to have to pay for that somehow unless the bar is going to start charging you
an entry fee, then you're paying for that. So I'm not saying go to Bodega. I'm saying that everybody should be, we should all just understand that going to any restaurant, going to Tipling House, going to any these places is, you're not assuming the price based on what, if you Googled that wine, what it costs. You chose that wine. You spent time figuring out which, which wine it was. And that's what I'm
Matthew Conway (32:49.006)In the we pay more than the New York City's wholesale price since the day we've opened in August of 2021. That beer is $5 and I pay health care for my team, which most of those people we know don't in New York City. So you can't sit here and make this argument that it's not possible because I fucking do it.
Joshua Sharkey (33:08.994)I'm not saying it's not possible.
Michael Jacober (33:10.642)So what you're saying, I think what I'm hearing you say is you would prefer a person who has taken the financial risk of opening up a restaurant, which you have done, Thousands of people have done it. Hundreds of thousands of people, maybe millions of people have done it. You would prefer for that person to say, you know what? I'm going to take less for me and I'm going to share more with my team. Because that's what your
Your
Matthew Conway (33:40.75)No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there's many.
Michael Jacober (33:43.694)But you're doing it through healthcare. You're doing it through cheaper prices, right? You're basically saying like, I'm going to leave money on the table by not charging more. By the way, what I would think is if you were charging less, you're trying to make it up through ticket count, through cover count, right? So in theory, price dictates, if you price something perfectly, if I'm a Jersey Mike's franchisee, right? If there's two Jersey Mikes right across from one another. If one Jersey Mike, they sell the exact same product.
sells a $5 sub and the other sells that same stuff for $10. Where do you think all the people are going to go? They're going to go to where it's cheaper. So if what you're telling me is you want to charge a $5 beer when you know you could charge six, seven or eight, you're trying to make up for that in volume. Or if it's something beyond that, if it's like, if it's, just think it's the right thing to do. You know, this is, this is a very different conversation.
Right. If you're saying that if there's thousands of people who can't, thousands of restaurateurs who don't want to pay healthcare for their staff, but I do, what does that say about you? You're willing to take less money.
Matthew Conway (34:53.87)I'm not even forcing that on other people like to Shaki's point if you don't if you want to work for somebody who doesn't give you health care That's your choice, but in New York City the choices that do give it are very few and far between So there's a whole nother conversation there, but I'm not saying look at me the sharky brought up a point of like well So you know this and that I'm just pointing we never raised the price once over five years because we believe
that if we're going to all, and again, you guys might not be in this world, but over the past four years, all the alcohol consumption, all the alcohol communities across the United States and world have just been complaining about how sales are just nose diving. They can't understand why. And then you go to New York city and can't get a beer for less than $10. And it's like, I know why, because people don't want to pay for a beer that costs $5 five years ago and spend $10. They'd rather do something else. And if you think that that's not part of it, and how do you get awareness out? Through podcasts.
through my Instagram.
Joshua Sharkey (35:49.262)But man, I think we're talking just about the two sides of the same coin. if you're, it's a business decision, you're deciding to charge that and that's great. And if someone decides to charge more, that's great too. It's, you know, people are going to decide to do what they're going to do, how they're going to do it, and that's what starting a business means. There's no, you know, there's, don't think there's a right answer of, and there's not a right and wrong, because you could decide to charge $1 for everything on your menu and you're going to go out of business.
Or you could decide to charge $1,000 and no one's going to go there. You're to go to business. Obviously those are twins of the spectrum. like everybody has their, like, you know, how they decide to price things, how they decide to, you know, think about their team. All those things are just business decisions. I don't think it has anything to do with the man. It's just.
Matthew Conway (36:33.774)You're, you're neither one of your positions surprises me at all. We can move on and leave that for him next week, but I will say bluntly for the record for anybody listening, I vehemently oppose the idea of charging $10 for a Modelo can and then be expected to tip. The rest of the world has figured out a way to make beer affordable and drinkable and drinking alcohol can be fun at the right price point. It's not fun at $11, including tip.
And that is a fact. And there are many people who are feeling that and I don't think it's cool and I don't support it. And I would encourage the listeners don't support it either. Go to the $6 bar and make them popular because they're actually doing
Michael Jacober (37:12.75)That's their choice. Again, of course it is. Yeah. So, so it sounds like your message here is don't support bars that chart 10 bucks for a modello. They're bad. Go to bars that support $6 modellos.
Matthew Conway (37:26.392)I think making beer affordable is something that is very well received by a lot of people and that I think it's something people should definitely support.
Joshua Sharkey (37:36.846)Okay, I think we're gonna, we'll move on here. I think we've made our points, I think. I think we did. I we made some sort of... Okay, there's a couple directions we can go. Did you guys actually look at the list, since you didn't add anything to the list and brought up topics? Which I'm gonna...
Matthew Conway (37:44.728)That was pretty clear.
Michael Jacober (37:55.534)I didn't get a copy of the list this week.
Joshua Sharkey (37:58.538)I told you guys on the text thread, it's the same link every single time. All I'm doing is updating the same public link. And now that your co-hosts and you want to be put on as co-hosts, you can maybe take a look.
Matthew Conway (38:13.607)If we're gonna show up every week, it should be expected.
Joshua Sharkey (38:16.43)Okay, add you first of all. Yes, you do and add Topics if you want to put them on there. So there's a few topics here. I will do you
Matthew Conway (38:24.52)Mike can pick it since I just picked mine.
Joshua Sharkey (38:27.34)Let's see which one tickles our fancy. So South Beach Wine and Food Festival hit their 25 year anniversary this year. There's an animal fat revolution because of this whole seed oil, which I don't understand. I mean, I understand, but I'm like, because seed oils are quote unquote, not good. A more people are using animal fats like tallow. Whole Foods is doing a whole push with tallow. We talked last week about the NRA released their forecast for this year. It's 1.55 trillion in restaurant sales. I mean, that's, that's a
Huge. Although 42 % of operators report they are not currently profitable due to staggering food and labor costs. 42 % of restaurant operators say they're not profitable. That's wild. Almost half of the industry is not profitable. We talked about Amazon Go shut down those stores and there's a couple other there. Mike, you can see. Why don't you pick one, Mike?
Michael Jacober (39:20.238)There's two that I'm looking at. I actually wouldn't mind talking about the animal fat revolution. I don't necessarily agree that it's a revolution, but I think we should absolutely dive into that. I'd also like to dive into at some point, if you could invest all your money into one restaurant, what would that be?
Joshua Sharkey (39:41.004)Why don't you pick one of them? Pick topic. You lost Matt already. He's already on Instagram.
Matthew Conway (39:48.777)I'm waiting for him to something.
Michael Jacober (39:52.343)let's do, yeah, let's do animal fat revolution. think, I think that would be a more group friendly conversation.
Joshua Sharkey (40:01.006)All right. will tee this up and then I think Matt, I believe we'll want to contribute a little bit here. Obviously we know there's this whole seed oil issue. Whole Foods officially named Beef Tallow a top 10 food trend for 2026. I hate that word, but whatever. The global fats and oils market is projected to reach $188.6 billion in 2026 driven by surge in functional and traditional fats.
Animal fats are favored not just for flavor, but for oxidative stability. They don't break down. There's no harm like aldehydes like seed oils have. The TLDR here is it looks like there's a potential that because of this seed oil issue that we're going to see a lot more animal fats being used. I see a lot of tallow. I've seen a bunch of these like wagyu tallow in stores. Obviously duck fat I'm sure is one of these smalt's lard, things like that. What do you think Mike?
Michael Jacober (40:59.072)So let's look at like when and how seed, seed oil started to come to market when they actually surpassed I think what was RFK's whole thing, like McDonald's fries used to be cooked in, in tallow and, you know, at some point in the seventies or eighties that, that, that shifted, which resulted in a tremendous amount of unhealthy habits that, that followed that. So when I, when I was in culinary school and one of the first things that we learned about
When it came to fats was fats are what creates the, the idea of being satiated. Right. So remember the whole like fat free diet. think that was like, was that early nineties? This idea that if you remove fat from the diet, you are going to remove fat from your body. That didn't obviously play out long-term because the idea of, of eating very rich fats, like you can have, you know,
an ounce of butter, two ounces of butter that you add to something, butter, put butter on bread. That is going to make you feel substantially more full faster, which in theory makes you consume less. And so the fact, the fact that we're like calling this animal fat revolution, a revolution I think is like somewhat confusing. It seems to be a, a, like more of a, a cyclical idea where it's just coming back. It's healthier. It's economical.
better for your body. And in theory, the animal fats taste a hell of a lot better than seed oils as well. So I
Joshua Sharkey (42:35.822)That's kind mean, it's honestly like, this actually, it's funny. This reminds me of like what Matt was originally talking about, of like this of circular part of farming and things that get commercialized. Seed oil really only became really prevalent because it was way cheaper to make and to scale than McDonald's french fries. Originally in Tallow, lots of things were fried in Tallow. And then it just...
Obviously, like, agriculturally, became way cheaper to, you know, to process seed oils. know, soy, corn oil, corn seed oil, know, companies like Crisco, like, crushed it because of this. And then you get like these sort of like trans fat oils that came about, which are even cheaper. And it was just really marketing that, like, over the course of like 30, 40 years, we're like, everything just became canola oil, vegetable oil, like, what the fuck is vegetable oil? That was just sort of the, you know, what we, what...
every household had and animal fats went away. So it's just circular. It's like, it's just coming back. They weren't ever bad for you. They were just, you know, there was, they were more expensive. They had, there's some things that are obviously like, you know, there's some issues with anything, any food, but I think it's just, you know, seed oil happened to get a bad rap now and which I don't think is necessarily the case either. There's just a lot of processed seed oils and now
animal fat is back because they need something to, you know, a new reason to do something. It'll mean like new companies that make new kinds of duck fat and tallow fat, but it's really just, you know, people learning like, yeah, it actually wasn't that bad. And why are we using C-dolls for everything? It's not a panacea.
Matthew Conway (44:15.98)I think it's definitely harder to clean. I mean, I don't think anybody would argue at least on a commercial scale, it's not more flavorful, tallow versus veggies. But in my experience, it's, it smokes at a lower, it reaches smoking point at a lower temperature than vegetable oil does, and it's harder to clean. So like at the press or Takitoria or anywhere that I've wanted to think about using.
animal fat. It's just, you get a lot more smoke off of the machine. So if your hood system isn't great, I'm not 100 % sure on that, but I believe that to be true. And it's harder to clean. Like when you get in there and want to clean out that fryer, if you've been burning animal fat all day long, you get a lot more buildup of gunk that has to be cleaned on a more regular basis. Otherwise it gives this burnt flavor to the thing. So it's harder to maintain in a large scale.
Joshua Sharkey (45:12.214)It's definitely got a lower smoke point than like a canola oil or something like that.
Michael Jacober (45:16.376)So Matt, your theory here is it's just, it's harder to work with, right? On a commercial level. look, it makes sense that that was why these C-Dollars became prominent. If there's the belief that, first of all, they're cheaper, right? That's obviously... Dramatically. Dramatically. And second of all, if they're easier to work with on a large scale, at some point it just was perceived as a win-win. I just remember like,
being a kid and every time we did cook with animal, we, cooked animal fat and it would render. It was almost that rendered fat was almost like, like, whether it was my parents or grandparents, like don't, no, don't touch it. That's really bad. So it was, there was this perception for a majority of my life. Like, like you just don't touch that stuff. Like it's not, it's not good. It's not good for you. When in fact, like we probably should, we should have been saving it and using it.
Matthew Conway (46:14.222)That's what you want to read. Yeah. When I make bacon, my wife saves all the shit in the side later to cook with. But if I like cook any type of protein, I always save all the juices and they go back into what else flavor town. I don't know what I'm cooking, but I it back in asparagus asparagus coats the outside. Like I use all the fat that comes out of the animal. But. know, taquita Ria, which was my taquita only business was.
modeled after a place in Hillcrest, San Diego called La Posta, RIP they've since closed and they only used animal fat and it always stunk outside, like it smelled funny and the walls were smoked. And we really want to do that at Taquitoria and we just couldn't because of the logistics of what you just said, cost, cleanliness, all of those things just made it, it wasn't worth it. Even though we knew it would taste better in the end, sadly.
Michael Jacober (47:08.822)In terms of cleaning it, you find it just doesn't get cut with degreaser as easily? Like what is the actual...
Matthew Conway (47:15.704)I mean, to be honest, we really don't like to put anything like that inside of the fryer. The most crazy thing we put inside of the fryer is white vinegar. It just builds up faster. There's more gunk. You got to get all that stuff out the hole into the thing. it's like a day, a day, a busy service with a day of tallow is the same buildup and gunk is four days in vegetable oil.
Michael Jacober (47:37.358)Have you ever used any of those like auto cycling filters? There are a couple grand you could attach them to a fryer. I wonder if that, you know.
Matthew Conway (47:49.774)seen them. But also the reason why those vegetable oils are so inexpensive is because we, the middle America has received so many subsidies to bring those prices down and find ways to use it, which is a whole nother conversation. And that's why it's been so cheap for so long.
Joshua Sharkey (48:06.478)Yeah, I imagine there's also, mean they're heavily processed. whereas obviously I don't think there's much to process in tallow. kill animals. mean, you could even do lab grown tallow, I'm sure. They're already doing lab grown meat. Okay. think that's it on tallow. Yeah. do you guys think?
Michael Jacober (48:26.062)I think so. think we got, wait.
Matthew Conway (48:27.744)The one thing we didn't discuss, which has been very, very prominent on social media and other places lately, is that it's good for men's aging faces.
Joshua Sharkey (48:36.334)Really?
Matthew Conway (48:37.272)There are many products out there that are being hyped by people like Brad Pitt and other handsome Hollywood hunks that you can buy these like $50 jars of Talo and put it on where men tend to age the most around their eyes and jawline. And your artificial intelligence world says it actually does help. It's not, it's not like, it's not just a gimmick, but there's lots of butts, but it's something that you're seeing more and more. It's like kind of like, masks for men made from Talo.
Joshua Sharkey (49:07.035)Well, I'll certainly rub some beef fat on my face.
Matthew Conway (49:11.399)You could cook in the tallow and then finish with just a...
Joshua Sharkey (49:14.798)What about bacon fat? Can I put bacon fat on my face?
Matthew Conway (49:17.326)I don't know, I didn't get that. I would imagine that would lead to some clogged pores and some acne, but who knows?
Joshua Sharkey (49:23.214)Butter? Can I just rub butter all over my face? Will that help?
Matthew Conway (49:25.474)I would
Joshua Sharkey (49:28.495)Alright, mean... Yeah.
Michael Jacober (49:32.15)It could be good for your sex life. You know, there could be some really strong improvements there.
Joshua Sharkey (49:37.198)I don't know what that would do.
Matthew Conway (49:38.446)I would go the puffy route and stick to baby oil. I think it's probably easier to clean up than butter.
Joshua Sharkey (49:44.59)Baby oil, yeah. You know? I'm out of baby oil. But butter, yeah. I'll try the butter. I think that is, I think that's a wrap for us for today. It got a little heated and I guess, I don't think Keith's gonna have any, I mean, I'm interested what he's gonna inject into that conversation about beer pricing. I don't know what he charges for beer.
Matthew Conway (50:05.838)To be honest, I don't want to attack him. It's not that I think that he does it wrong. I think that I wanted somebody that has experience to my...
Joshua Sharkey (50:14.69)may have attacked him inadvertently already in this show.
Matthew Conway (50:17.71)Just to add to definitely not. I told you via text, Keith's a legend. I love the dude. I think he does a really good job. I think he's a really responsible business owner that cares about a lot of things that other people don't in his industry of nightlife. And he may charge $10 for a beer and I'll find that out, but it doesn't mean that I don't have respect for him or anybody else that spills $10 from beer. I do think there's a way to sell a $5 beer.
Joshua Sharkey (50:41.931)I think that's exactly the point that we're all making here is that there is a way to sell a $5 beer and this is there's a way to sell $10 beer and both of them
Matthew Conway (50:50.702)You do it at the same place. Like you get literally, so I went to Hawaii, I had to hit the Chino White Ale, you know that beer?
Joshua Sharkey (50:52.942)Maybe
Joshua Sharkey (51:01.851)yeah, I used to love that beer.
Matthew Conway (51:03.15)for me too. And I forgot about it for years. actually used to I believe so. It's because it's right. Yeah, but I used to carry it at Cafe Grey. I used to drink it every now and then back.
Joshua Sharkey (51:06.537)in free
Joshua Sharkey (51:13.422)That's where I had it was at Cafe Gra-
Matthew Conway (51:15.534)But like you, I'm not a big beer drinker, so I haven't had it or even really seen it. It used to be really popular. Like Chimay used to be really popular. Like all those bougie beers that have fallen out of favor. So I'm in Hawaii and they didn't have a big beer list at the place we eating at and they had a hit of Chino. So I'm like, oh shit, I'll try one. And it was like, fuck, this is delicious. So I checked to see if we have it in good old South Carolina and we do. order it. It's an 11.2 ounce bottle.
Joshua Sharkey (51:23.724)Rogue? What's that? Rogue?
Matthew Conway (51:44.11)It's an import, obviously, and it's not an import that's actually brewed here and says it's imported. It's actually brewed in Japan and then shipped over here.
How much do you think the beer costs? 11.2 ounce glass bottles.
Joshua Sharkey (51:56.651)per bottle?
Matthew Conway (52:01.976)Bill Kast
Joshua Sharkey (52:03.854)$2.80
Michael Jacober (52:05.902)was gonna say four bucks.
Matthew Conway (52:07.758)$6.12.
Joshua Sharkey (52:11.95)What?
Matthew Conway (52:12.908)It's a high quality beer, right? It's got to be imported. It's not. So there's the question. What should I hit it with the eight times Marco and charge what they.
Joshua Sharkey (52:15.758)So what are you charging for?
Joshua Sharkey (52:25.179)Well you can't, nobody's gonna pay forty dollars for it.
Matthew Conway (52:28.046)But why so then why would they do that for a medulla
Joshua Sharkey (52:31.47)and dollars and very different price in forty eight
Michael Jacober (52:34.414)Right. And the terminal dollar differential is like, we're talking about an $8 Delta versus a $40 Delta.
Matthew Conway (52:41.762)Delta. Think about Delta. And that's where I think you guys get a little out of
Michael Jacober (52:45.612)They do.
Joshua Sharkey (52:46.51)think they do. I think they do. they see a $48 beer, it's a very different thing than seeing a $10 beer.
Matthew Conway (52:52.632)Sure. Would you say that people wouldn't be more willing to spend money on perceived value, which might be an imported niche beer versus a mass-produced madeleine?
Joshua Sharkey (53:03.758)Sure, but not $48. There's a ceiling.
Matthew Conway (53:06.254)So then what do you charge for?
Joshua Sharkey (53:08.256)But that's the whole, that's the- Yeah. That's the- I know what
Matthew Conway (53:11.502)We sold a fuckton this weekend, surprised me, because we don't really sell beer. Once WONT went out, we kind of, we have to pour it in the wine glass because our beer glasses aren't big enough and you have to like...
Michael Jacober (53:21.102)I charge 18 bucks for it.
Joshua Sharkey (53:24.11)I was going to say 16 because of Matt's propensity for being cheap or selling things cheap.
Michael Jacober (53:30.99)What would you sell it for?
Matthew Conway (53:33.55)Because I made the decision that making $8 off of every single beer purchase is substantial and enough. if it was our number one selling thing, but beer sales are less than 1 % of our total sales. it's not, I mean, they weren't this weekend and that'll die down. But like at that thing, like, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe I'm not the right guy, thinking maybe I can get 24 for this. makes.
us look like I'm out of touch with who we are, which is providing really high quality beverage at a price that's still
Joshua Sharkey (54:07.566)Yeah, but that's your brand and that's why you should charge that. That's why you should charge what you're charging for it. But that's part of the brand that you've built. And another brand might be exclusivity. Another brand might be it's the experience.
Matthew Conway (54:21.678)I wasn't comparing my brands to my distaste for $10 beers.
Joshua Sharkey (54:26.338)But think that's part of it though. think that actually is.
Matthew Conway (54:29.23)don't know. What part of it is my desire as a customer when I go out to be able to have a cocktail and have a beer back without the beer costing as much as the cocktail, to be able to have a situation where you're going from one wine event to another wine event, you want a little buffer socially. And so you'd like to just have a quick high life for five bucks or whatever it is. But instead you get hit with the beer list. You're like, fuck it. I might as well just keep drinking cocktails because there's not even a price break on whatever. And maybe that's a very 1 % drinker thing to think about it. That is how I do think about it.
Michael Jacober (54:58.798)At this bar was it was with their $9 cocktails as well.
Matthew Conway (55:02.508)I didn't even look at the cocktails but I would imagine they were 20 plus.
Joshua Sharkey (55:05.998)Okay, here's a price gouge. I took my kids to Great Wolf Lodge. You know Great Wolf Lodge? There's a few of them. This is one in Connecticut, right across from Foxwoods. I didn't realize it was across from Foxwoods, otherwise I would have just gone and played some poker. But it was like a thousand bucks for the room. And you get there and there's like a water park, there's games, there's a couple different restaurants that are all horrible. There's a Dunkin' Donuts.
Michael Jacober (55:15.042)Yes.
Joshua Sharkey (55:35.502)All inside, right? There's like a climbing thing and everything costs money. You get there and you're in this thing. There's nothing else around. And you're in this basically like hotel event space. The room's already a thousand bucks, no room service. And everything costs money. Literally everything. And by the way, like there's like a fat burger there and you get like a 20, I think it was like a $20 burger.
Water is $4 for a bottle of water. And you talk about like, you know, like ripping someone off, like you're, you're, you're a captive audience. And first of all, the food is the worst that it could be. Yeah. You know, like there's a sit down thing we had at breakfast. I didn't know that my wife had booked it. And like you go on this like a buffet and it's, it's a buffet and everything is like the frozen pancakes that you buy out of the thing and the frozen sausages and powdered eggs.
And it was like $48 a person for the buffet and any of the drinks are, you know, like extra like restaurants that care and that actually put work into things and take care and like think about all the experience. I think there's a reason why you can charge what you can. And, and then you see things like that and you're like, this is literally just, extracting as much, extracting as much money as you possibly can from people because you know that there's nothing that they can do about it.
And they're stuck there and their kids are crying. And even you go to the pool and like they have to, you have to pay for different things and like you got to rent out the towels and you got to rent out a locker to put your stuff in and in a place that you're staying, you know, for a thousand bucks a night. And, and that was like, I shouldn't be, I mean, I'll be honest. I was, I was so pissed and, and like literally everything they get you for everything. Parking, you know.
And the food couldn't be worse. You know, it couldn't be worse. They couldn't put less effort into it than they did. But they charged the same thing that you charge. More. They charged more than you That bothers me.
Matthew Conway (57:44.216)Yeah, and that's all that money is what I talk about going to the man. There's some guy on his yacht right there being like, cha-ching, and let's make him charge for water and air and toilet paper. Yeah, toilet paper. Let's do a dollar per square. And it's like, yes, you could have gone to another hotel where they don't do that to you. But I just don't like that model and the idea of hospitality specifically where New York's gone because it's crazy.
Joshua Sharkey (58:08.994)I just don't like the idea of this like fictitious man. These are people. Somebody owns that business. I'm not going to that business ever again.
Michael Jacober (58:17.102)they have investors and those investors are expecting a yield on their capital. And that's ultimately, it, and Matt, do you own stocks? Like it could be you, you could be a, a beneficiary of, you know, profitable enterprise. If you own any stocks at all, you're the man. It's going back to you.
Joshua Sharkey (58:40.184)I just think the idea of saying the man is a very like dismissive or reductive way to look at like there's there's people have people make decisions you know like are there you know like are there is there lot of corruption and things happening sure but for the most part you can point
Matthew Conway (58:53.24)But you just know how many of those things that you just said all lead back to one person who's above or a handful of people who are above all of what you just said. You're aware of that very much. actually have, I don't want to talk about it in depth, but I've got many clients that run these types of multi conglomerations that really touch everything that you do.
most of them own sports teams because then you can sell your own stuff and your own thing and then you're producing like, and again, that's that vertical integration you're talking about where it's like, if you can just have a piece and everything or outright dominate it, then yeah, so some guy in the stock market gets one millionth a percentage of the $9 beer, but the guy who owns the company that owns all of the breweries and the places, supermarkets that sell them and the sports stadium where they guzzle them and whatever, that's the man.
Joshua Sharkey (59:47.918)So again, I think this is also just there's decisions who are, I'm not going to go back there again. To be fair, I just researched this and Great Wolf Lodge is the majority owner of Great Wolf Lodge is Blackstone, one of the largest private equity firms in the world. They have a 65 % controlling stake. So, you know, but you might have a-
Michael Jacober (59:54.924)To be fair,
Matthew Conway (01:00:10.606)65 % that's a that's a big number, too
Joshua Sharkey (01:00:14.04)But the point is that there are, the restaurant that you went to in Manhattan is not owned by Blackstone. It's owned by a person. know, most things like that, you know, they're owned by like restaurants. Most restaurants are owned by, you know, a person and, and they might have a board and they have investors, but generally speaking, it's not like some fictitious man at the top above them. It's the people that started that business. Do you disagree or?
Matthew Conway (01:00:38.798)I'd have to, against this specific business, I'd have to know more about it, but I do think there's a lot of businesses that present themselves as human owned that are being bought up by whatever. you've guys talked about it on this show extensively about all these people who are acquiring brands and businesses and all of these things behind the scenes that I was even unaware of half of them. I mean, even James Kent's group is acquiring fine dining restaurants that you were not even aware of or a part of his.
not his, but the company's situation. And again, more and more of that is happening. And so, yes, the man is the person who's seeing that overall takeover of the restaurant industry in Manhattan and elsewhere.
Joshua Sharkey (01:01:20.846)But I mean, again, do you have a 401k? Do you have an IRA? No. Do you have an index fund?
Matthew Conway (01:01:30.606)I'd be really disappointed by the answer to all these questions. Nope.
Joshua Sharkey (01:01:33.422)Okay. You should, by the way. most people do and most businesses should be giving their, their like matching or like getting their employees, like something like that. And if you have a 401k or an IRA or an index fund, then you are an investor in Blackstone because they're part of the S and P 500. They, you know, they, so we benefit from their, you know, from their growth. So even as I'm saying, I'm not going to go back to Great Wolf Lodge.
Michael Jacober (01:02:02.424)You
Joshua Sharkey (01:02:03.342)You know in this market and so I think that it's it's a myopic way to think about things say that there's that there's a man and that that that's controlling things because we have we can make our own decisions and decide we want to buy from who we don't want to buy from and and decide not to go to great roof lodge next time and go to someplace else and Then their business will decline and then they might have to make other choices and they might not but that's you know That's what free market is. I'm a worry
Matthew Conway (01:02:30.776)at the free market. So am I.
Joshua Sharkey (01:02:33.526)We can't end on this though now because this feels like a... Mike...
Matthew Conway (01:02:37.678)I'm just looking for the actual place I had it to see who actually owns them because I think that's a funny
Michael Jacober (01:02:44.984)Who owns the bar that you went to? Yeah. I mean, most likely an independent owner. Yeah. Guy probably works there three or four nights a week.
Matthew Conway (01:02:54.04)I'm gonna bet money you're wrong.
Michael Jacober (01:02:56.75)what was the bar called?
Matthew Conway (01:02:58.06)I don't know and that's what I was looking at. Thank you.
Michael Jacober (01:03:00.43)And it was where in New York was it? it in Midtown? Was it in the Lower East Side?
Matthew Conway (01:03:05.032)East Village, So, First Avenue.
Joshua Sharkey (01:03:08.408)bar in the East Village.
Matthew Conway (01:03:11.756)I sent you guys pictures of me in front of Mama Fuca.
Joshua Sharkey (01:03:15.624)I'll be right Well, he's going to look for it now. I think. You know, this conversation happens more. I I have it even at home, know. This idea of capitalism, free markets and choices, it's really interesting. I don't think the argument's going to be very helpful when you say that they're making a lazy argument, because I don't think that's
Michael Jacober (01:03:15.886)Sorry.
Michael Jacober (01:03:30.499)Yeah.
Joshua Sharkey (01:03:44.994)what's happening, get why you're saying it. But I think that there is this, it does feel a little bit like, know, reductionist to just dismiss like what control we have, but, and in some way I know we don't, but did you find him,
Matthew Conway (01:04:02.871)I did.
Joshua Sharkey (01:04:04.351)And do you want me to search it for you?
Matthew Conway (01:04:06.894)Yeah, it's called bar snack in the East Village.
Joshua Sharkey (01:04:10.51)Bar Snack East Village. Bar Snack East Village. Okay. And you think that they're owned by private equity.
Matthew Conway (01:04:20.248)No, I just don't think it's a guy named Bob who's working four nights a week behind the bar who is in their own business. Ian Griffiths, an acclaimed bartender associated with notable bar groups such as the Lee-En group who helped develop Bar Snacks concept and program, a Brooklyn-based bar owner known for other neighborhood spots who teamed up with Griffiths on this E-Fillet project. So there are multiple, multiple bar owners who've teamed up to create this bar, so they have to actually make high margins so that everybody has enough nut to eat. It's not Joe working four days a week, otherwise the beer would be-
Joshua Sharkey (01:04:49.422)What's wrong with that? What's wrong?
Matthew Conway (01:04:51.382)All I, my only contention is that there's a way for them to be successful without charging $10 for a Modelo. That's it. I don't believe in, and I know you can go somewhere else and I encourage people to do that. didn't want to name the bar, but I've been vocal for.
Joshua Sharkey (01:05:05.85)I think we need to have them on. I want to hear them. I want to their side of the story. I bet that there's things that are being missed here that are why they are charging that.
Matthew Conway (01:05:10.359)I
Matthew Conway (01:05:17.55)The point you're missing is it's not even bar snack. It's every possible plate. Like even the boat in New York, it used to be $5 for a glass of Rose on the boat, the ferry that you use your Metro card to get on. And now it's 12 bucks. I'm like, these used to be five bucks. They're like, yeah, but we waste so much. And so it's just what it is now. I'm like, I'm not mad at it. It is what it is. I don't have to drink one. I'm not throwing anybody overboard over it, but I'm just like, wow, in five years, we went from five to $12 for a...
four ounce cup of rose on a boat. That's pretty interesting. New York has gotten, I'll also point out the fact that when I posted that screenshot of the 897 beer and said, man, New York, do you know who out of the 50 people that conversed with me about it, do you know how many of them were from New York? Over 40. They were like, fuck this place. This is the most insane place to live. So you're talking about don't go there, go to a bodega. These people don't even want to live there anymore because it's, they're pricing them out of their own home.
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:14.926)Again, I understand. I don't know what the rent is in that place. I don't know what the overhead is, you know? Like, I think you're...
Matthew Conway (01:06:21.358)I wouldn't want to a bar if the rent was so high that I felt that had to charge ten bucks for a medulla. That's it.
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:28.534)So I think these are choices. Everybody's got a
Matthew Conway (01:06:32.364)My choice would be to have people have a $5 beer.
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:35.724)I think we'll end this session on something that my mother used to say and still says today, to each their own.
Michael Jacober (01:06:43.072)To each their own.
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:45.614)Alright boys.
Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you liked this episode or any other ones, you can actually check out more of this at getmes.com slash Josh. That's G-E-T-M-E-E-Z slash J-O-S-H. I have my podcast there, The Mese Podcast, plus some other shows and interviews. I'm starting to write some stories and blog posts, some recipes, recaps, things like that. So I think you'll enjoy it. Again, it's getmes.com slash Josh. G-E-T-M-E-Z.
Thank you very much. Very grateful for all of you.
