Greg Baxtrom (09:19.35)Yeah, I was never it. Like, yeah, I own a restaurant and there's booze everywhere. And I was certainly drinking cooking brandy in the basement when I was doing a commercial with Gordon Ramsay, you know, because I was nervous at nine o'clock in the morning. But there's also a liquor store right next door. And I also live alone. So it wasn't like because it was around. I was then thinking a lot. It was because I was depressed as shit, you know. Yeah.
Joshua Sharkey (09:44.642)I mean, I'm sure you have a better sense of why now. mean, it's humans are like this. We were just talking to some, podcast about like how when diners look at your restaurant, like, you're a multimillionaire. Yeah. That's cool. You're like,
Greg Baxtrom (09:56.46)lose this job I'm back to paycheck to paycheck you know I'm not
Joshua Sharkey (10:00.278)In the same breath, you know, you from the outside in, you're like this, you have all these accolades. People love your restaurants. You're like, why would you be depressed? But clearly that's not what happened. So what is it?
Greg Baxtrom (10:09.582)I mean, a good documentary that's out is the Michael Phelps, The Way to Gold. that's when other people, you know, people reach out to me now and ask for advice and the way to gold, the gist of it is, you know, these athletes, it doesn't just follow Michael Phelps, it follows a bunch of Olympians. And the summary is that for decades they aspire to achieve this one thing and then...
They do, they go to the Olympics and they place or they get close or something, but it checks the box of they have achieved what they set out their life to do. And it's not like everything falls into place after that. You know, it's not like then they're married and have kids and they have a house and they have a six figure job and everything is great. It's they achieve that and they have no idea what to do. I remember being drunk in the middle of the street on Vanderbilt Avenue behind me was Olmstead in its prime.
and across the street was Maisoniaki and it was getting all this. It was on track to get all the same awards until COVID. Like they got a GQ best new restaurant and I remember being like, I didn't want to be at either one of them. know? I mean, I remember again, not to be, you know, I want to keep people's names out of it, but a friend of mine with a three-mushroom star restaurant in Chicago came on the same day, the most famous chef in New York that's all over.
Joshua Sharkey (11:19.512)Why?
Greg Baxtrom (11:33.11)ate at the bar at Olmsted on the same day. And even though like this mentor of mine was eating at my restaurant, I left with that other guy and went to the bar down the street and drank with him. You know, that was like one of the most important people that could have ever and it's not Grand Akkets, but it was close and.
I just, I did, I thought everything was going to fall into place. You know, I'm, still, I want kids and you know, I think I would be a, if I had my shot to be a good dad and you know, it's so frustrating that you go through, you work at all these, you know, again, the Lenny up or say blue stone barns, Norway, France, Spain, you know, my resume is not too shabby. And, once you sort of get the accolades, mean, I was getting accolades that I didn't know existed. I didn't, I did not know.
that all those magazines had top 10 lists. I knew about Top 50 in Michelin and the New York Times. I don't even think I was aware that Eater did reviews and people really liked what we were doing, but I didn't know what I was doing. I remember days before we opened, my publicist and Evan Sung and all these people were at the restaurant and I was plating the food going like, is this okay? Like, is this what people are gonna want?
You know, is this, is this too fancy? Is this not fancy enough? Like tell me what to do. I don't know. Like it's this, there's definitely this like not to go on a tangent, but like there's this moment where as a chef, you can kind of always just work for someone else. And that's what I had been doing. I had been working for all these great people. So, so I was getting the cache that my resume was great and people were like, something's going to happen with this guy. And, but at some point you have to cross the street.
and put yourself in a position where you're being judged by everybody, by your work, by guests, by writers. It's a very scary thing to navigate. I've seen people avoid that, but like the Plague super talented people that just don't want to be in that position. And I certainly was like much more arrogant back then. Like, I don't think the success of Olmstead made me any more arrogant than I already was becoming. But, you know, I wasn't happy.
Joshua Sharkey (13:35.533)Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (13:47.822)You know, I wasn't, uh...
Joshua Sharkey (13:50.766)Do you have a sense now of like, because I'm afraid you've had time to think about this, what's the gap? Like what was missing for you?
Greg Baxtrom (13:56.898)My whole family lives not in this state. I don't know anybody in this state. You know, I have chef friends, you know, but even the people that I, all these people that I came up with at, per se, for example, when I moved here, they all went home, married their wives and had kids wherever their wives are from. They all left, you know? So I'm sort of just here in New York for the cache of it being in New York.
And you know, I, I, I got fortunate. My brother and sister are great. have great parents and, and I'm not around them and I'm quick to take a call from a vendor or a lawyer over a call from my family. You know, like, don't like that. That is how things panned out for me and, rustling with that.
mixed with I have no intention of leaving. still like cooking a lot. I love going to the farmer's market and shooting the shit with the farmers, you know, or, you know, my dishwashers worked for me for 10 years, like just hanging out with him. I like all of those, all these little things. I like when the toilet breaks at the restaurant and like, I'm the only one that knows how to fix the problem, you know.
Joshua Sharkey (15:12.918)Hehehehehe
Greg Baxtrom (15:15.032)So I don't wanna go anywhere, but like I could have a healthier relationship. And now that I'm like almost six years sober and six years in therapy and six years with a psychiatrist on medication, I've evolved, I have just changed. I've evolved a lot in six years.
Joshua Sharkey (15:29.902)When you look back now at when you were launching Olmstead, or maybe just like, you know, after it launched, do you see patterns that now looking back, having this perspective, like, wow, I should have done that differently, or I can't believe that's how I operated, or can't believe I was able to do that, you know, given where my head was at.
Greg Baxtrom (15:51.022)Yeah, I wish I would have like enjoyed the team spirit more. You know, I've said this once before, but like I can recall a moment when I was standing at the pass and I turn around and I could see the bartender like laughing with an employee and my guttural reaction was to be annoyed that they were talking during service.
And in that moment, there was like a lesson I did before I said anything, I scanned the bar and I scanned the path. Nothing needed to be picked up and nobody needed water at the bar and everybody had a whole drink. And well, like my reaction was wrong. I felt so I felt attacked. Like in my business, we have to take this seriously. The expectation is high. But those were just two employees that were enjoying each other's company. You know, fortunately, in that case, I didn't.
I just recognized the moment and I went back to work. But I'm sure there's many times where I, that it did bother me and I did say something, you know? And now at Five Acres, you know, it's not the most, you know, culinarily ambitious restaurant, but it's a busy restaurant that makes good food. We still shop at the farmer's market. We buy Jasper Hill cheese. Like we use ingredients that we want to use. It's just in the form of burgers and Caesar wraps and stuff.
The staff is just so lovely and they enjoy, like everybody's been here since we've opened for the most part. Wow. And it's just a really nice work environment.
Joshua Sharkey (17:17.304)mean, let me about Five Acres for a minute. We can sort of bob and weave here a little bit because it's such a different beast than everything you had in Brooklyn. Small restaurants, very neighborhood. You know, again, like there's very sort of whimsical. Patty Anne's is maybe the closest thing to Five Acres, but like I am curious, you know, how, what the feel is compared to Brooklyn. But I will say you did answer the question that I'm to of is a hot dog a sandwich.
Because you got a hot dog on the sandwich menu.
Greg Baxtrom (17:47.694)I do. Yeah, I don't want to go to category.
Joshua Sharkey (17:49.998)Okay, that's fair. There's no no care guy.
Greg Baxtrom (17:53.366)I felt the fries, you know, whatever.
Joshua Sharkey (17:55.534)How does it feel? Like, I want to know like, you know, not just like how it feels, but like what's changed for you now, because it's such a different, I you're in Rockefeller Center is like the epicenter of New York tourism in Brooklyn. got like writers and artists and chefs and you know, that are just, they live there and they're going there for dinner. This is a very different piece.
Greg Baxtrom (18:15.214)I mean, we had some analytics done and we found out like more than 85 % of our guests come once and never return because they're just visiting New York. Even how like that relates to marketing. Like, you know, we've been putting some effort into Instagram, but it's not like any of our customers are looking at our Instagram. You know, we want every angle to be good and represent us as well as we can, but there's probably no reason to even have an Instagram because it's just
tourists that are at Rockefeller Center. But I mean, my thing when I worked at all those restaurants was like, I was accumulating knowledge. mean, like I've like, for me, it was like Highlander. Okay. Like I cut off Grant Eckert's head. cut off Dan Barber's head. cut off, know, and I get their powers and I can do their food and I can't, I can come up with an Alenia dish or a Blue Hill dish or, you know, if required. And I didn't really leave until I had that ability. I left to per se.
quicker than, mean, my plan was to just stay at Perse until I took over as the chef and then I was offered the chef position at Stone Bar. And so my plan changed a little bit there. But the point was that I wanted to be someone that opportunities came to me because I had a skillset and then I was in a position to choose whether or not I wanted them or not. like I'll take a phone call for some hotel in New Mexico that is looking for a chef or something.
just for the sake of what are they offering? What is that conversation like? Because when I started that part, when I, when I was actively looking to open up a restaurant, I would say the wrong thing in conversations all the time. Like I have to have at least 51 % control and no one can ever tell me what to do about the food. And you know, the conversations would just end or the door would slam on my face or they would just start ghosting me. And it wasn't until I got a lawyer that I sort of were, you know,
were able to articulate things like 51 % doesn't really matter. You could have 1 % but total control of the food. like, so once you sort of learn that stuff, then I was able to articulate myself better and articulate what mattered to me. And again, the point was that I wanted opportunities to come my way and to be able to say yes or no to them. And that was when the opportunity of Olmstead came about. And the same thing here with Rockefeller Center, they were, they were overhauling Rockefeller Center.
Greg Baxtrom (20:42.592)It just so happened that someone I had met 10 years ago remembered me. Over having a few conversations and that person was in charge of placing all the chefs here at rock center and. And I charmed him 10 years ago and so he vouched for me and I was able to get this position and. It wasn't, it wasn't. Like, it wasn't something I was planning.
But either was Brooklyn. I'm from Chicago. I am not from the neighborhood that I had all those restaurants in. I lived there for 15 years. I still do, but it's not this romantic story that I'm from Vanderbilt Avenue and I put all these restaurants. And with Rockefeller Center, I just liked the challenge of seven day a week, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, never allowed to close. When I signed the contract, there was going to be no hood in the kitchen and there is no gas.
Joshua Sharkey (21:35.48)Wait what? So hold on.
Greg Baxtrom (21:37.166)I have a six foot hood now. do thousands of covers during the holidays and I have a six foot hood with no gas. And we sell about 600 burgers a day around Christmas. What? Just check it out. When I opened Olmstead, Olmstead is it was like an eight foot hood. I flipped that restaurant for less than 300 grand.
Joshua Sharkey (21:53.934)tiny rush.
Joshua Sharkey (21:57.676)Yeah, well yeah, you did a lot of that yourself.
Greg Baxtrom (21:59.768)Dad did a lot of that work. He slept on my couch and did it. I mean, I helped him and held tools while he did the work, you know.
Joshua Sharkey (22:07.182)That garden, that was so cool. Like the fish that were swimming through there, kind of fertilizing it and then having the s'mores in the garden. That was a really special, I remember that was like maybe like the best date night to go and just like sit in the garden or just with friends and just, you know, have the little.
Greg Baxtrom (22:08.974)Yeah, it was something.
Greg Baxtrom (22:26.368)my biggest, you know, hang up about losing Olmsted. And at the end, be told, I was able to gather the money to save it if I wanted to, but I sort of mourned it at that point. Yeah. And so I just said, OK, like it's just time to move on and.
Joshua Sharkey (22:43.278)I wonder if it's also part of your past of like, that was your time not sober and it's like moving on from that was like, you need to like, just let it go. Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (22:54.018)It does feel a little bit like a new chapter. I've really invested myself here at Rock Center. I'm, I am trying to, they have all these beautiful, it's very touristy, but they're in a very beautiful, like it's a very beautiful, cool place. And during the holidays, you know, huge chefs come and bring their families there and we can host them and it's, really rewarding. And so we're trying to add catering and concession stands and, and all these seasonal activations. And I, you know, I want this to be.
decades long play for me at Rock Center. And simultaneously, I want to explore what it's like having some restaurant outside of the country, whether that's like a licensing deal or.
Joshua Sharkey (23:36.022)Why outside the country? What's the impetus for like wanting
Greg Baxtrom (23:38.742)If other people can do it, why can't I like that? That is the bar. If someone else has a restaurant in some other country, why can't I? I'm not as famous. I'm not as talented. Okay. I agree with those things, but I want to learn and I, you know, I want those things presented to me and they do. And now I'm exploring that. And then the other thing on the table is that I want roots in Chicago now. So whether I split my time or whether I just moved back to Chicago,
Joshua Sharkey (24:07.032)You had something in Chicago, right?
Greg Baxtrom (24:08.206)Well, I had signed a lease in my hometown, which is not the smartest thing. It's a suburb and it would have to be a very low price point restaurant and it was only about 30 seats, but it was a very romantic story. And long story short, it would have taken a long time to get the restaurant off the ground. And so for a restaurant that I knew was never going to really make me any money, it just, it didn't balance out to where
the romance, it wasn't romantic enough to lose money and to have it be like a two year process to get the restaurant open. But I got pretty far, I signed a lease and I was looking at chefs and it was designed and everything. But there were just a couple of bureaucracy things and I just, backed out of it eventually.
Joshua Sharkey (24:58.798)Gotcha. I mean, you know, the other question here is, I mean, you have a number of these restaurants in Brooklyn that won every award that they could win and were busy, yet the economics were not great. Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (25:12.27)Especially something like Olmstead. I think I went on some tangent, which you'll have to cut me off because I do a lot. the thing that I miss about Olmstead was that my dad built it all. So there was just stuff that reminded me of my folks everywhere. And my dad had done that at all the restaurants in Brooklyn. The room I'm in right now, this wood behind me is barn wood from my parents' house. He has done stuff at all the restaurants. So I hate that I don't have that anymore. That if I had kids, I can't bring them.
to that restaurant and I'm sure it's all being torn out.
Joshua Sharkey (25:48.12)But why do the economics not work when the restaurant is that good?
Greg Baxtrom (25:52.812)Well, with Olmstead, people were expecting new stuff all the time. I killed myself in that restaurant. We had restaurant inception, where if you ordered an item off the menu, a server, a different server would come, bring you a different menu, and then there would be a whole menu, including drinks and cocktails within that. And we were calling it restaurant inception. And that was how we launched Mezanaki. It was a yakitori restaurant inside of it. But on the Olmstead menu, it was just one of the entrees.
Joshua Sharkey (26:21.772)Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (26:22.856)And we would do crazy shit like that all the time. And it was a huge team effort, but it was exhausting. And, and that's not where I wanted to die. You know, like that's not where I wanted to hang my hat for the rest of my life. And so I wanted to try other things, other restaurant ideas that I had. And, and I didn't kill myself for like 12 years working at all these Mr. Star restaurants to only have one salary. Like that's not what I, which is what I have now, but like.
It's not. You know, I want to be successful at some point in my life. You know, I'm out there. Yeah, but hopefully I'll get there.
Joshua Sharkey (26:59.874)Hold on
Greg Baxtrom (27:02.766)successful. You know, and I also don't think anybody knows who I am. So well, I argue that point too, but. I, know, I want to provide for my inevitable wife and kids. want them to have whatever life they want, you know, so I'm going to keep hustling until I can do that. And it definitely was ego driven before. Now it's. You know, now when I talk to all my chef friends, it's about how the heck do we retire in this industry? That's what we talk about, you know, like.
Joshua Sharkey (27:09.442)Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (27:32.522)Not that we actually want to retire, but like when we're in our 70s and our bodies start failing, how will we afford that? That's what I talk to you with chefs all around the world now.
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And check out the show nuts moving forward because we're be adding promotions and discount codes so that all of you lovely and brilliant Mee's podcast listeners get a sweet deal on Mee's. It's very difficult. It's really difficult. Yeah. It's funny because I miss cooking so much and I went through a very depressed time for a very long time, especially most of bark. I was like, what am I doing? Like I spent 12 years cooking for incredible chefs and now do this and you know.
You know, all my chef friends are like, my gosh, Josh, you know, you have this tech thing and you're doing this and yes, that's the, you know, that's true. But, you know, the, plight of like being able to continue cooking is, is a gift, but yeah, there is a.
Greg Baxtrom (29:21.422)Also, it's so relative. Again, not to brag, but like I have friends that have three Michelin star restaurants and like I'm envious of them and they think I'm more famous than them. You know, so it's like none of us are happy, you know, like.
Joshua Sharkey (29:35.97)Yeah, it's tough. I feel really grateful for being able to do what I do and be able to like impact so many different, you know, chefs and like 30,000 kitchens using this tool. But there's no way around the human condition of the grass is greener on the other side. know, it's just, it's just part of, I think you kind of just have to accept that too. That's like, you know what? You're always going to have this, you know, comparison as they say, the comparison is obviously like the, you know, the thief of joy. And it really is. Because it's funny hearing you say you don't
think you're successful even financially when like, you know, there are very few chefs in the world that have ever been able to do the things that, that you've done and have the impact that you have.
Greg Baxtrom (30:12.77)But when I, mean, to get into the weeds, basically everything I made from my restaurant and Rockefeller center, I would just pump into my restaurants in Brooklyn to keep them as live as long as I could until I just couldn't do that anymore. I was putting money in the account so we could pay payroll, pay. I wasn't, I didn't collect a penny from any restaurant in Brooklyn for years, years and years.
Joshua Sharkey (30:27.244)Was it just the margins were?
Joshua Sharkey (30:37.614)What was the blocker to profitability at those restaurants? Because they were busy.
Greg Baxtrom (30:42.254)Being chef driven, so requiring a high salary person to maintain that quality is not wise.
Joshua Sharkey (30:51.342)see labor cost is really high
Greg Baxtrom (30:52.614)Yeah, because if I replace, like I had to replace myself with someone skilled and that person had to be compensated well, you know, that math just didn't really play out. Like if I would have just stayed at Olmstead and didn't do anything else, then maybe it would have had a better chance. But then I wouldn't have had the restaurant at Rockefeller Center that pays me a salary that I pumped that money into Olmstead whenever I had a bad week, you know, so it's
Who knows?
Joshua Sharkey (31:23.726)Yeah. Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (31:26.048)As much as I am this creative guy or whatever, the restaurants that I go to are Rucola in Brooklyn or Walters in Brooklyn, where stubbornly they do not change their menu. They may have a special here and there, change of pasta, but the gist of it is the same. I wished Olmstead could be that way, but we were seasonal and creative and people wanted to see new stuff.
Joshua Sharkey (31:53.966)You know what's funny is I had my buddy Todd on the podcast last week. we worked together. He was a didn't you, but I was at Belay and I worked with his wife at Belay. They have a restaurant in Austin called Lin-War. Been around for like 12 plus years, I think. And they just opened a bar and it was really interesting hearing him talk about, it reminded me you actually. Cause like the bar used to be a, it's a space they have next to the restaurant. And he's like, I did this myself. He's like, I didn't want to bring a contractor and he's like, I wanted this to be mine.
That was what I wanted to go to. he's like, built, he's like, unlike the restaurant where I wanted to, like, I wanted from a table on sustainability and the menu has to have all these things. I was like, what's a bar that I want to go to every day? And he's like, that's what I built. And in retrospect, he's like, why didn't I, why didn't I think about that for the restaurant? Why didn't I make a restaurant? Like I want to go to every day, as opposed to the one that like you think of when you're a chef, you're like, yeah, well, this is kind of, okay, we're going to, we got it. Clearly we got to do this and this and this, and it's got to have this level of execution. You got to have.
all these other elements to highlight like us as chefs when it's like, what do I actually want to go eat every day?
Greg Baxtrom (32:58.892)I love, I mean, I don't eat a carrot crate once a week, you know?
I would love it if I could just show up, go to the farmer's market, go cook something in a building, and then sell it for $65 a plate, you know, and it comes with salad and an entree and a little dessert and just whatever I felt like making that day. I would love to do that, but that's definitely not how social media trends, you know, people need viral stuff now and.
Joshua Sharkey (33:30.19)I know. mean, Rukla doesn't, they have a great group and they operate really well, but I don't think social media is the big driver of why they've been around for-
Greg Baxtrom (33:38.062)Just being this romantic chef where I just went to, you know, I bought asparagus and now, you know, you're going to have an asparagus side and a salad and some, I braised some pork shoulder or something. And it wasn't posted on Instagram two weeks beforehand. So you could plan that you wanted to go. I wish I could cook like that. mean, even, you know, here is a little bit closer, but yeah, I wish the stuff I cook at home. I wish there was a way to have, you know, like the French diner is very romantic where it's just like a small team.
Joshua Sharkey (34:08.267)Yeah. And they just go.
Greg Baxtrom (34:09.272)Yeah. Cool French food, which is like, that was a great draw. More than Olm said, Maisignac would get the most compliments from industry people because they just, all of us like cooking French food, you know, just because it's like, there's a box, you know, a Bernays is a Bernays. And so you're either doing it right or wrong and you can interpret it, know, like I don't do a reduction. I just infused tarragon into it and I don't do it. But it's still Bernays is Bernays.
And then to do that small and you're plating it small, like that was just fun. So I would work the grill sometimes and go down to flames all the time because it was incredibly hard station to work. And, but it was just fun making all these French dishes with a little Japanese influence.
Joshua Sharkey (34:55.254)It was like, it was like, remember when it opened, was like, fuck, that's such a good idea.
Greg Baxtrom (34:59.788)Yeah, a lot of stuff to me and I wish I could bring it back. You know, it didn't work, at least not in the neighborhood. So I don't really think I would.
Joshua Sharkey (35:07.566)don't know why it didn't work honestly, because the food was great and it- Well, maybe you should have a $20 cocktail.
Greg Baxtrom (35:10.102)nine dollar cocktails like. Yeah, the point of that restaurant was to be open till two o'clock at night where it wasn't a late night menu, that it was the whole menu all day so you could get off work and come in and all of that was working until Covid. I mean, we were only nine months old or 10 months old until we closed. And when we turned the lights back on, it just didn't click. It did not click the same way.
Joshua Sharkey (35:36.27)So interesting why I actually went there a couple times, but every time I I was like, it's just, it's really good. mean, you get, you're over cooking over fire and then you have a Grubish or a Breschamel or like, you know, Frog Lings, Provencal. It's this is brilliant.
Greg Baxtrom (35:49.1)It was, I thought it was also like, it's very easy to write that menu. Okay. Frog legs, frog legs. Okay. Tempura fry them. Okay. Tempura comes with a ponzu. Okay. Have a garlic and lemon parsley ponzu, know, duck briyette instead of mustard wasabi. Yeah. It was delicious.
Joshua Sharkey (36:02.38)It really is, yeah.
Joshua Sharkey (36:08.408)I also think that those, so much of the yakitoris have played so well with the French sauces. First of all, Griche doesn't get enough love. That's fucking one of the best sauces ever. It's like a way better
Greg Baxtrom (36:17.806)Sounds like a beef sandwich.
Joshua Sharkey (36:19.98)Yeah, I think you had it on asparagus once too. I think it was like some, some, go asparagus, but yeah, it's just interesting why those things don't work. Sometimes it's frustrating too, because great restaurants sometimes don't work and the economics are maybe just uncontrollable. don't, I don't.
Greg Baxtrom (36:21.762)Yeah, probably.
Greg Baxtrom (36:37.61)Or I'm just not as good at it as I want to be. mean, with Patty Anne's, with Olmsted, everyone was like, this guy's going to open up a fancy, expensive restaurant and nothing was more than $24. And then to show that I meant that I was trying to be affordable at Maisonyaki in the beginning, I don't think anything was more than $9 or $10 or something. And then with Patty Anne's, that was supposed to be my take on Cracker Barrel where we had chicken fried pork, but it was heritage pork.
duck meatloaf and because it was duck, did cherry ketchup instead of regular ketchup as a little nod to French classics. And, but I don't think people wanted to $28 on pot roast and, but it was quality product, you know? And so it did really well in the, for the first two years. And, uh, I think once
Joshua Sharkey (37:20.822)Yeah, yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (37:32.974)people moved on to another restaurant. At that point, you need the neighborhood to sustain you. the only restaurants that have really lasted the test of time in that neighborhood are ones that have basically $18, like sub $20 entrees. And I understand that people make their money and they want to spend it on what they want, but that's not the game that I want to be in. I don't want to be in the game of $20 entrees. You know, I want.
I want to buy ingredients in the farmer's market. I want to buy nice beef and duck and that's what I want to work with. Yeah. So if I'm not for that neighborhood, I'm not for that neighborhood. Plus someone once explained it to me who also owned a bunch of restaurants in that neighborhood. His take was, well, if I have a kid and I want to go out, a babysitter is about 150 bucks. Plus they expect door dash or caviar or something to be delivered some stipend. And then
Typically they want an Uber ride home. So you're talking about 200 bucks. Yep. So why am I going to stay in my neighborhood if I'm going to have to drop 200 bucks? I'm going to go to Manhattan instead. So I would say that the thing that I have not understood despite my 10 years of being in the neighborhood is why is Fort Green so different? For green, there are a lot of restaurants that have been there for over a decade at different price points.
There are a handful of Italian restaurants. There's not, you know, the barbecue restaurant, the middle Eastern, you know, there are some repeat concepts and, they've still been there for a while and they're above $20 entrees. There's something different about that neighborhood. Maybe less kids or something.
Joshua Sharkey (39:16.942)I think there is a younger, but, by the way, just for everybody listening, you're talking about Prospect Heights, like near Berkeley center and then Fort Greene is near there. Yeah. I wonder if it's because Fort Greene is slightly more affordable than, than Prospect Heights. So maybe you have a younger generation that like lives and eats in the neighborhood, whereas in Prospect Heights, Park Slope more affluent. They might have more income to say, go to the city more often.
Greg Baxtrom (39:25.56)Walking distance. It's all one road, you know.
Joshua Sharkey (39:44.238)or travel more often where they're not actually around nearly as much as they are, you if they live in poor green. I don't know. That's just a speculation, but let's transition here because because we can talk about this for hours, but I want to talk about the cookbook because it's coming out and well, let me see that.
Greg Baxtrom (40:03.618)Nothing matters, awesome.
Joshua Sharkey (40:04.504)Delicious. Yeah, that's the schnitzel on the cover. How do you get a OK, we'll get a coke in a minute, but like very ripe heirloom tomato soft. How do you fucking schnitzel that without it falling apart?
Greg Baxtrom (40:18.89)every room temperature. cannot be that soft of a tomato.
Joshua Sharkey (40:24.632)So is this a slightly underripe?
Greg Baxtrom (40:26.03)No, you still want a ripe tomato, but the thing is that you want it to be room temperature. The idea was that I always, you know, we tried to cater to vegans and vegetarians and be as hospitable as we could. And so the first sort of entree we did was peas. I was like, I want the smallest ingredient at the farmer's market to be the most substantial entree on the menu. And so then we did like peas seven ways and we had pita where we ground peas and put it into flour and remember that.
All this goofy, you know, stuff. With the schnitzel, it was, okay, everybody's gonna have heirloom tomatoes and peaches and brata salad on their menu. Let's have our tomato be the hot entree. Let's let that be the challenge. And so, you can't really grill a tomato without it getting mushier and having some weird exterior. So the idea was like coating it with flour and egg, like that would be the Maillard reaction would be on the flour and the egg. So it gets put in the pan, it's only cooked.
for about two minutes on each side. So that's where the heat's coming through and it warms up the room temperature, you know, like the never refrigerated tomato. And then in that same pan, we would put some butter and shallots and we would pour that over the top of it. And just through residual carrying over heat, it would be above room temperature. Maybe not the most piping hot dish, but still hot. And it's good. You know, if it sits for more than like five minutes, it's mush, you know, and it's not great. You eat right away.
Joshua Sharkey (41:49.55)Yeah. Well, it was to the cover of your new book. Yeah. So what was the impetus for, making a cookbook other than the obvious?
Greg Baxtrom (41:59.224)People have told me same thing. If other people are allowed to do it, then I want it on the table. I like if other people can be on the food network. I want it. That's not like I'm not looking to be any more famous than I am. That's not where I wrote the book. People tell me that as you get to this point in your career, your cookbook, if you have a cookbook at this point in your career, it's sort of like your business card. That's like what you hand people and
In the beginning, there was talks of an Olmstead book because it was so popular. And, but as I learned more about cookbooks, I learned that some guy in Iowa is not going to want a cookbook about some restaurant in Brooklyn. So if I were to write a book, it had to have at least more broad appeal. So it wasn't just some trophy book. You know, that's not what I set out to do. And I tried, I had different writers. They were great.
but they weren't really great at pulling information. have ADHD, I'm bipolar, I'm dyslexic, I'm a mess a little bit, you know? So getting recipes and information out of me is not the easiest. And eventually I met with Joshua David Stein and he was able to just like come over, sit on my couch and pull stories out of me. And I was able to send recipes and we were able to get some traction. And the truth is the first time I went to rehab, didn't take a couple of weeks later, COVID hit and I started drinking. And then
I went to rehab the second time and I was hospitalized. And so when I got out, I told myself I needed 90 days before I would try to work again. Before I would show up to work, I would prove to my staff that I had more, that I was like sturdier. And so the book for the most part are recipes that I cooked for myself while I was accumulating those 90 days of sobriety.
My sobriety is not really something I want etched in my tombstone. I don't overly talk about it. It's not even overly talked about in the book. There's re there's nachos called rehab nachos, you know, pandering a little bit. And there's a story about me being sober, but you know, it's not what I want to be remembered for is being some sober chef. I'm a cliche chef. I, you know, I used to be an asshole and, and, I'm a drunk and bipolar and
Greg Baxtrom (44:17.934)All the cliche bullshit, you know, that's not the mark that I want to leave on the world. I, you know, I hope I leave it a little bit of a better place and that in the end, I'm remembered as a halfway decent guy and that people like my food. So the book is some stories about being sober and some experiences, you know, when I worked for Brannacchus or Dan Barber and some of my background, but they're just very simple recipes that you can make at home that, you know, probably didn't take me more than
Half an hour to make.
Joshua Sharkey (44:49.102)Who's the book for? Like who's the reader?
Greg Baxtrom (44:51.566)I don't even think he knows that, I would have, my brother-in-law likes to cook. And so I've never really told him that, but like would always think like, he would make this, you know?
Joshua Sharkey (45:02.899)That's a great, that dude, that's a great proxy for thinking about your audience. I imagine he lives in the Midwest.
Greg Baxtrom (45:09.954)Yeah, he's in the Midwest. He went down this crazy rabbit hole during COVID where he was cooking out of the French Laundry cookbook and making sourdough breads and stuff. And he was plating and it was really impressive. You know, he's got three kids and a wife and a job. So he kind of abandoned all that, but.
Joshua Sharkey (45:20.622)Yeah.
Joshua Sharkey (45:26.36)But then this book is really then for
Greg Baxtrom (45:29.07)Practical use. There's some Olmsted stuff. There's a version of the carrot grapes and the schnitzel and we would do pierogies at the restaurant. So there are definitely a few Olmsted dishes in there made a little simpler.
Joshua Sharkey (45:42.958)But it's really intended for home cook. Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (45:44.93)Yeah. You know, I tried to throw a couple of things in there. Techniques like if you don't want to chop garlic, you can just peel a clove of garlic and stab it with a fork and you can stir your greens and you'll still get the garlic flavor without having to chop any garlic. Some old school French stuff. think John Shields taught me that back in the day. yeah, just tried to make it where it wasn't so serious, you know, that if you make a mistake, you know, flip it over. Back in the day, Grant.
Akith used to tell me, you know, the idea is to learn all the rules so you know exactly where and when you can break those rules. And I think that that helps make cooking easier, you know.
Joshua Sharkey (46:24.558)It's funny to say that, yeah, because at home, when we cook, oftentimes you're not cooking nearly like you are in the restaurant, but you know where all the like, cheats you can do, you know?
Greg Baxtrom (46:34.328)You know, I'm trying to be better at putting content out there and, you know, try to give a real effort to make sure that the book does as well as it can. But I wouldn't publicly put half the stuff I cook at my house, you know, for people to see. It's so basic, you know.
Joshua Sharkey (46:50.85)Yeah, you never know though. we do take for granted, I think a lot of the things that, that, that we cook that might, might seem novel to us that aren't.
Greg Baxtrom (46:58.776)Cooking things in stages, like first the onions, then this. You know, I don't really do that when I cook.
Joshua Sharkey (47:03.598)Yeah, I really like at home. rarely I really do that. I will say though now we have our house up here We have a bunch of fireplaces and there's one in the kitchen. There's a big school fireplace in the kitchen And I have a cornrow grill inside the fireplace so It's great because like and there's a bunch of beach with on below it and so, know once a week we just That's where we cook. Yeah, and it's really easy. But you know, it's like simple things that we're doing there so okay, so the the book is is more for home cooks, but like
Greg Baxtrom (47:28.579)Yeah.
Joshua Sharkey (47:32.92)Did it feel like a release for you? Like a therapeutically, like, you know, you're telling your story here.
Greg Baxtrom (47:37.07)So when I was getting sober as part of like, you know, treatment, I was told to write out what was happening. And so I have this essay and part of it is in the book. I don't really know if I'll ever use this for anything. again, I'm still navigating this. Like I, I'm no expert in sobriety. I'm barely an expert in being a chef. So like nobody should take my advice about anything. But I wrote this thing and it talks about, you know, getting off the plane and meeting the nurse at the airport to go to rehab and
And so that was very therapeutic and every once in a while, every like six months or so I'll open it up and I'll just sort of add to it a little bit. Again, I don't know if that's just something that will die with me and no one will ever see it or what, but you know, there's probably about four people that have read it. so a little chunk of that is inside of inside of the book. Like I said, though, like I'm open to talking about this stuff. I hope I can help, you know, in any way possible. It is very interesting.
Because my own staff was very kind to me during that process of getting sober and relapsing and getting sober again. And that like, I've tried to extend that with my own staff when they've had problems. And sometimes that's easy. And sometimes someone's really struggling with substance and you're juggling. Well, I've known this person for 10 years and I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and the help they need.
But now I'm enabling that person to still be around other employees and that's not comfortable or safe. And so what, what do you do in that situation? And, and then in that situation, I've handled those cases well, and sometimes it's not gone well and it's just an evolution. mean, again, I got like six years, but I had, I have doctors that have 12 of them in a better room and said, you are definitively bipolar.
and you have been your whole life. then I have psychiatrists in the last few years that are like, I don't think you're bipolar. I think you're something else. You know, I think you should be, you know, one guy is saying you should be on lithium for the rest of your life. The other one saying, I don't think you should be on lithium anymore. And so it's all crap shoot. You know, it's not like now I'm sober and now I'm medicated and it's forever done. It's ongoing. You know, it's fucking complicated as shit.
Joshua Sharkey (49:59.552)Yeah, like everything is a spectrum.
Greg Baxtrom (50:01.518)I did that Andrews, know, Andrew, I did this podcast, Andrews Talks to Chef. And the last one was like pretty depressing. And I, you know, I was, I was really depressed and I was opening out when that aired, I was in a hospital for having suicidal thoughts. And that was after I had accumulated years of therapy and sobriety and like, it's not just like now I'm fixed and everything is perfect, you know? and so wrestling with
that and still wanting, you know, the goal for me career wise was like, wanted Grant Actors to be proud of me. I wanted chefs that I looked up to, to at least at least know who I was. Maybe they would come to my restaurant and now frankly enough of them have enough of people that I looked up to. I have met or eaten my food and I've had dinner with and so like that box is checked for me as far as.
accomplishing my chef goal, you know, so now trying to have some type of, you know, it's not the right work life balance, uh, while still being able to be creative. That's, you know, that's what I'm trying to navigate.
Joshua Sharkey (51:24.43)It's interesting, Greg, I'm hearing from you these things like, well, if they can open a restaurant overseas, then I can. And if they can do this, then I can do that. we don't know each other that well. We've hung out a few times and I've obviously seen you a bunch in the restaurants. But from the outside in, and having eaten your food and seen your restaurants, you're incredibly hardworking, talented guy, very ambitious, always trying to improve.
And I hear these, you know, like, well, if they can do what I can, and I want Grant to be proud of me, like, do you, you see yourself as all of these things that you've accomplished? You see like the greatness that you have?
Greg Baxtrom (52:05.272)don't think that highly of myself and
Joshua Sharkey (52:07.534)I'll be honest, I hear that and it bums me out because obviously that's a tough thing to hear.
Greg Baxtrom (52:14.392)You know, I've always wrestled with this like Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde thing, you know, where I don't know which, like, I feel, I feel like that's me. Like, I feel like there are people that think I'm the nicest, loyalist, like loyal to a fault kind of a guy. And then then I'm the drunk, you know, on the other side of it, you know, and, and I think I worked really hard to offset that, you know,
especially in last six years. But I'm not miserable or anything, but I just don't have all the answers, you know? And to be frank, I hate it when I see on social media people boasting that this is how hospitality is supposed to be, or this is how you become successful, or this is like, keep names out of it. But I, you know, I'm pretty well connected and nobody actually feels like they're
the biggest shit in the world. You know, another thing that me and other people my age talk about is how, how we're bad at our friendship. You know, that now that we've all settled and we all have our identity and, you know, we bled with each other back in the day at a Lenny or per se, like we all acknowledge that we're not really great friends and that we want to try better at that. like people only want to present.
Great, and I understand that. Nobody wants to come to some depressed guy's restaurant.
Joshua Sharkey (53:43.278)I hear you man. I agree with you on the friendship piece. I just think, I think you need to give yourself some grace of like what you do know and what you're capable of. I, you know, I'm hearing this and it's, you sound like you're really hard on yourself and I'm telling you this, I'm sure many other people do that. There's a lot there and I hope you yourself more grace. You know, for what you're doing. We all have, all of us have our, we're all fucked up in some way. You know, like nobody doesn't have some sort of, you know, issue.
Greg Baxtrom (54:02.008)You should.
Joshua Sharkey (54:12.27)I have a massive comparison issue where like I could go into deep spirals. I'm like, my god, David Chang did these 15 things. What am I doing? Come I don't have that. And I'll lose sleep over for three days. Yeah. You know, and I'm that I'm hard on myself for it. But we all, you know, I think these conversations are important because it's wrong.
Greg Baxtrom (54:31.15)That that jealousy component of mine is gone now I'm just genuinely happy when I see someone else successful at what they're doing I don't even want to be sent stuff when I go to restaurant now. I just want to pay and support and be there, you know, I just That is something that I've evolved on the jealousy thing. I don't don't fester and go that guy's got more restaurants than me or what the heck, know, I
Joshua Sharkey (54:49.976)Yeah.
Joshua Sharkey (54:57.146)for me, it's not a jealousy. It's a self. It's a self like, it's like, why don't I do that too? Why am I? I'm not doing enough. I'm not working hard enough. I'm not trying enough. I'm not like, you know, I'm not, I'm just not doing enough. That's, that's where I go. I actually, my defense for that for myself is what you just said is when I look at someone like Chang or you or anybody, I'm like, fuck yeah. I love that. Like they were able to do all these things and I'm like so grateful for them for doing that.
Greg Baxtrom (54:58.552)I admire it.
Joshua Sharkey (55:23.896)But that's my struggle is like, I'm always like so hard on myself. Like, why am I doing more? Why aren't I doing this? Why aren't I doing this? I need to go do this. And it's a, it's a constant battle. Yeah. Which is not healthy.
Greg Baxtrom (55:36.096)Industry, it's seemingly becoming less rewarding. You know, like for me, I'm pretty numb to all the accolades. You know, I could say that in hindsight after winning a lot of them, but, you know, there's not really money to be gained in this industry. the, year there's a new reviewer system or a new award that we're supposed to all adhere to and value and
You know, I think like in the last 10 years, we've really like broadened being a more inclusive industry and being more mindful of mental health and addiction and how we behave in restaurant. can say that I have, you know, worked on that a lot and, but there's a long way to go on that stuff. There's some obnoxious headline of like the price of chicken is too expensive. But then the article goes.
Joshua Sharkey (56:25.942)Yeah, I agree.
Greg Baxtrom (56:33.624)to basically say why it's too expensive, that it's rent and labor and stuff. So we all understand that, I mean, I don't agree that every headline is supposed to be polarizing for the sake of clicks. I think you can have a higher moral standard and not play to that bullshit, but we get it. You have to pay your bills and stuff. But the polarizing title could have been $77 is too damn cheap for chicken. And that could have been the polarizing headline that everybody could have commented and blah, blah, blah.
And that would have made sense because the publication is supposed to be in favor of our industry and they write about what we do for a living and use our recipes. And so like that would have, that would have achieved the same controversy, but better in the favor of the industry. But they just chose to take that other route, you know?
Joshua Sharkey (57:23.032)Yeah, well, it really is just quick bait. It's just easier. Let's end this not on restaurants. Okay. I want to talk about Eagle Scouts because my son started, he's a tight. And I'm trying to get him to do more, you know, and he's starting to get into it. I don't love all of the, I love everything about Cub Scouts, about the Scouts, except for the obedience part. Like they have this mantra and one of the things is obedience.
Greg Baxtrom (57:32.866)yeah, it was a tiger.
Greg Baxtrom (57:45.78)trustworthy loyal helpful from the courteous kind obedient trustworthy loyal
Joshua Sharkey (57:49.61)Yes, all of those things are great other than like I don't love the like, okay, just be obedient It's like I don't love teaching my son that but everything else I love but what are some advice for me? For him to get to be an eagle scout
Greg Baxtrom (58:02.35)Well, the obedient things. You know, that's that's like the fall in line or get out, you know. I don't know, I really, you know, I liked it because it was spending time with my dad and my brother. was in it from second grade until I graduated high school. And and I I tried to quit once or twice. I remember one time in high school trying to quit and my dad said the only way I could quit is if I went up to all.
50 members of my troop and I shake their hand and thank them for the time and said goodbye. And I didn't have the balls to do that. So I just sat in the car one time and the next time I was just bored in the car. So I went back in and I kept showing up. You know, there's a lot of controversy to the brigade system now that it's military and blah, blah. But my psychiatrists and therapists think that that is what kept me in line, kept me being an
Joshua Sharkey (58:37.87)That smart.
Greg Baxtrom (59:01.228)ADHD bipolar guy in line for so long because right around the time I fell apart was when I owned and operated my own restaurants and they were fully staffed. And so I no longer came to work every day with a prepless top to bottom of what I was going to do in the order in which I was going to do it until we open at five o'clock and then a ticket comes out of a machine and that tells me what I'm going to do in the order in which I'm going to do it.
And so as soon as I stopped having to write that list and there was no order, I unraveled. didn't, months before I became an alcoholic, I was the guy going, who are these guys at an airport drinking at 10 AM? You know, months before. So I'm all for that rigid, you know, learning, learning skills, respecting adults, you know, community service. I've logged in hundreds and hundreds of hours of community service in my life. And, uh,
But the camping, the camping was really like the third month, the third week of every month for most of my childhood, I would go camping with a bunch of guys, my dad and my brother. I am as Eagle Scout as it gets. I'm within a secret society within the Boy Scouts. If you're such a Boy Scout, you get tapped in secretly because you follow the rules so much. So I'm within that organization too. But we was still like steal coffee cans and.
Joshua Sharkey (01:00:01.432)Camping's awesome.
Greg Baxtrom (01:00:26.754)bug spray and try to make bombs in the forest, you know, and those are great memories.
Joshua Sharkey (01:00:32.974)Did you ever win the Pinewood Derby?
Greg Baxtrom (01:00:35.146)No, I have it at my house though. have my apartment. Yeah. My parents told me to get rid of my shit out of their house. I, I went with your car. don't know. I won some cooking competitions and it was kids were with adults in the competition and they gave the awards to the adults, which I still hold a grudge. Why am I competing with adults? First of all,
Joshua Sharkey (01:00:37.655)Yes.
Joshua Sharkey (01:00:46.126)We had the leg
Greg Baxtrom (01:01:03.422)And they didn't like that I made a salad dressing and I put it back inside the vinegar bottle because I thought that would be fancy. So they thought it was store bought. They didn't have their imagination.
Joshua Sharkey (01:01:13.102)The last camp thing we went to, the food was the jarred meatballs with the gravy and some pasta that took like 12 hours. Like they didn't know what pasta was rough. Yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (01:01:22.205)yeah.
Greg Baxtrom (01:01:30.36)You should look back in my boy scouts.
Joshua Sharkey (01:01:33.048)Yeah. All right. Well, everything other than obedience I'm good with. Yeah. And by the way, that might be part of what, you know, like teaching kids like, Hey, you know, structure is great, but you also have to be able to figure out how to operate without structure. Cause I think that is, especially as like a CEO, starting businesses, like that's the first thing you realize is like, shit, no one's telling me what to do. I got to set that for myself. Yeah. And what I do when I wake up in the morning to the time I go to bed is on me and no one else. It's a, you know, it's thing to figure out when you, when you start.
Yeah. Well, this was awesome, man. Yeah. Thank you. And congrats on the book. What's the actual date?
Greg Baxtrom (01:02:08.398)In May 26, it comes out. I hope a lot of people are interested in, but we're going to try to do a little tour. It'll be mostly just New York and Chicago. And my plan is to try to have a restaurant open in Chicago by 2027. So I'm going to try to go big. Chef Aketsu has offered to do an event at one of his spots and a couple of other chef buddies. So we're going to try to do lot of programming there.
Joshua Sharkey (01:02:10.338)May 26th, okay.
Joshua Sharkey (01:02:31.758)Love it. Well, congrats man. Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you liked this episode or any other ones, you can actually check out more of this at getmes.com slash Josh. That's G-E-T-M-E-E-Z slash J-O-S-H.
I have my podcast there, the Meeze Podcast, plus some other shows and interviews, starting to write some stories and blog posts, some recipes, recaps, things like that. So I think you'll enjoy it. Again, it's getmeeze.com slash Josh, G-E-T-M-double-E-Z.com slash J-O-S-H. Thank you very much. Very grateful.
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