Todd Duplechan (08:50.318)I'll actually get it closed before the pandemic.
Joshua Sharkey (08:52.839)yeah, yeah that's right. I didn't, by the way, I don't know much about Dovetail Pizza, but let's talk about Bonnie's for a minute because obviously it's so fresh, it literally opened I think last month, right?
Todd Duplechan (09:00.886)Yeah, Bonnie's opened a month ago, five weeks ago.
Michael Jacober (09:04.856)So you're like, you're in it. You're in it right now.
Todd Duplechan (09:07.562)I'm in it. Yeah. I've been in that. That's the fun part is I've been in it, you know, with openings, everybody always talks about openings the same way where it's like, it's so hard. It's so hard. There's all the hours. There's all the stuff, which is true to a certain extent, but also openings have a lot of downtime and a lot of BS work in my opinion, where it's like you get a team together. You always get that team together too early. And then you have a bunch of managers that are like doing busy work.
And we're like, well, let's figure out these 1500 systems that no one's ever going to use or whatever. And then, you know, there's like another tasting or there's another, let's go out as a group and try some restaurants. anyway, at this particular thing, I was like, no, I'm just going to do all this contracting stuff and keep it really small, not hire managers and then open it and get into the turn it and get into the operations part as soon as possible. So.
Yeah, I'm definitely in it at this point. Things are going well. I'm very happy with it. I'm very happy with the space mainly because it's what I wanted. And I'm learning a bunch because I'm not a bar person. Like I've never run a bar. I've never been in charge of a bar, especially a bar only. There's been bars obviously in restaurants that I've done, but that's always been under someone else's supervision. So I'm learning a lot about the bar business, which is great. know, that's what makes all this stuff fun is learning stuff.
Joshua Sharkey (10:32.024)What's the biggest takeaway so far from the
Todd Duplechan (10:34.454)just the fundamentally the difference in running a bar and running a restaurant, feel wise and customer interaction wise, where at Lenoir it's always thrilling with the front of house team about hospitality and the steps of service and being seen, but not seen. And we put so much effort and so much training into that stuff. And there's so much thought put into that interaction and how you deal with the kitchen and all this other stuff.
And then at the bar, you, you, you go up and you're like, Hey, what do want? And it's like, it's just such a different mentality. And then also a big problem for us in the first couple of weeks is I had some people come that were cross-trained from Lenoir that wanted to try it out. And they're like, I'm just touching the table way too many times. It's like they're like, leave us alone. We're just like, it's, it's such a different vibe. And then also the bar is loud and.
I'll be working in the bar and doing the normal washing dishes and busing tables and do all this other stuff. And then I'll walk next door and walk into Lenoir. And it's like, whenever you leave a concert and you're like, oh, it's so quiet outside. I walk into Lenoir and I feel like I'm yelling at everybody because it's just so, the music is low. Everybody's kind of hushed. It's whispery. So those are the big things, the steps of service, the guest interaction stuff. And then it's also just a lot more.
it for me as an operator, it's a lot more comfortable. I'm just in there, you know, talking with people, it's treating it like a bar myself in that way where it's like, I'm just having fun guest interactions and talking with people I haven't seen or meeting new people or stuff like that, meeting the folks from the neighborhood. So that's
Joshua Sharkey (12:19.768)Such a great way to put it,
Todd Duplechan (12:23.214)One of the things that dawned on me last week was people always come into Lenoir or your restaurant and they're always like, Hey, besides this place, what's your favorite restaurant in town? And the thing I always immediately think of is like, well, if I was going to rank restaurants, Lenoir probably wouldn't be in my top 30 restaurants in Austin, Texas. Right. It's like, it, it, it's just like, it doesn't
Calculate that way. It's not my favorite restaurant. It's something else. It's but whenever people ask me that about Bonnie's I was kind of like, you know what? This might be my favorite bar. I really dig it here. I love the feel of it I love the vibe, know, it's just I like the drinks everything so It worked out in that way and it made me it's making me start to change how I think about Lenoir's like well Why isn't this my favorite restaurant?
Joshua Sharkey (13:17.474)Well, you probably didn't build it the same way as Barney's.
Todd Duplechan (13:21.686)Absolutely not. The mentality of building the place was a completely different operation, even from, you know, the idea of what's the mission. The mission of Lenoir is about farm to table, start with the farmer, create as many new farmers in central Texas as we can. It's about sustainability. It's about food security. And that's been our focus. honestly, whenever I think about Lenoir and
I just see my main problem with it is I just see untapped potential every day. I'm like, it could be so much more. It could be so much more, which is partially why we do it, but also partially, you know, it's a solitary confinement sentence. So it's.
Joshua Sharkey (14:07.968)It's such an interesting heuristic because we typically, especially as chefs that I think about the same way, when building tech, it's like, okay, I want to build this awesome thing and it's got to this and it's got to have this and it's got to have this. Which is very different from the perspective of what would this be like if it was just exactly what I wanted to go do every day? And you would probably think about what you build very differently because obviously sustainability is important. Farms are important. All the things are sort of like elements.
But that's not why you want to go to a restaurant every day. You know, they're like nice things. You kind of check a box. And by the way, I'm not diminishing those things because obviously those are, those are super important, but those are not the reason why you're like, man, I want to go. I want to go to Uncle Boone's today. I have no idea what, I Uncle Boone's isn't around anymore, but like, I have no idea what their sustainability policy was or where they get their ingredients or, but it was a beautiful restaurant and the cocktails are great and the stuff was spicy and seasoned well. like, and you came out fast and.
You know, like we do think about it's ventures as creators. like think about things from that perspective. Like, okay, what are all the elements that I want this to be as opposed to the what you did with Bonnie's, which is like, what do I want?
Are you gonna now like think generally thinking, okay, let me think about Lenmore again from that.
Todd Duplechan (15:26.734)Well, like so when like when war has been open for 14 years, it's been in constant blocks. It's been in constant change as well. I don't know, I guess as I say as restaurants do, but I don't think restaurants do think some restaurants are not looking for change and not looking for, you know, the next iteration of what they're doing, but we have been. So now I'm kind of thinking about what is the next steps for Lamar on that point.
How do I make it a place where I want to be more? that's more that is in the, in the veins of what we're talking about, but also, you know, with staffing, my, I just hired a new manager, new front of house service manager. And in the process of hiring that person, I started thinking about how hard it is to work at Lenoir, which is something that I bring up to Jess, my wife and partner all the time. You know, we're constantly pushing people. We're constantly.
Our expectations are very high and it's a 900 square foot restaurant. know, inside is 900 square feet. The kitchen is probably 200 square feet.
Michael Jacober (16:35.886)many seats is Lenoir?
Todd Duplechan (16:37.324)So inside it's 20 seats outside 60 seats, which is also another massive iteration. So during COVID we had this big outdoor area that was really just a waiting area to get inside to our previously 30 seat restaurant before we renovated. But then COVID we moved it all outside and the restaurant's different. It used to be a pre-fee restaurant inside 30 seats, blah, blah. Now it's mostly outside and it's a
We still have a chef's choice, is like our version of a tasting menu, but it's got all a cart menu, which doesn't make it easier. know, it's like, now we have two menus. Yeah. And so.
Michael Jacober (17:17.55)200 square foot kitchen.
Todd Duplechan (17:19.222)in a 200 square foot kitchen. mean, it's, really tiny and it's one of those, you know, you come up through the industry in New York and you are pushing and everything's difficult anyway. and then you bring that here and you're like, I expect the same thing from, from you guys to come to work every day with the, the fire and the drive and the willingness to overcome obstacles at every moment. And it's like, at a certain point you're like, it's just not realistic.
And it makes it where it's very difficult. We've been very lucky. We've had people that have worked for us throughout the time for really long periods of time. have, you know, just like everybody else, but the manager that just got replaced with was with us for four or five years. My chef's been there for three or four years. We hold on to people. It's an exciting job, but it's extremely difficult because it's two dining rooms. It's inside, it's outside, there's rain, there's heat, there's all this stuff.
Joshua Sharkey (18:17.875)What's the solve? what do you change about that to make it less
Todd Duplechan (18:20.738)Well, so what I've come up with with talking with this new manager is he came to us and said, I want, I don't want to work all the time. I want to work. And what he said is I don't want to work, you know, 50 hour weeks every week. And I was like, yeah, you won't, you know, add like 20 hours to that and you'll be maybe close. But what I always do is I am.
Jess and I are great because Jess is like an instant decision maker. And most of the time she's right. She just makes a snap decision and it's like, no, that's the right decision. And I will sit with stuff for a long time. And so my initial thing was like, well, this dude's out, way. And then I sat with it and I thought about it and I thought about what our problems are and our problems are that this place is too hard to work in. And then I was like, no, what if, yeah, what if this guy just
We limit what he does and we say, this is what you do. Maybe we're not going to pay you quite as much as the person that is in charge of 50,000 things, but you're going to be in charge of service and making sure that service runs great. Training is good. The schedule is right. These guys are in good shape. You're not going to do the wine list stuff. You're not going to worry about planning parties. You're not going do any of that stuff, but anything that's wrong with service, I'm coming to you.
If there's anything I want to change with service, I'm coming to you. And maybe this is how people run things anyway, but it's not how we've run it because we're small and everybody has to be a jack of all trades and do a bunch of different things. And I have for a long time been trying to. And what I would say is like, make you into what your next job is going to be. Like I'm going to take you from being a hostess to a manager, to the general manager, if it's not for me, then for somebody else.
And what I realized is like, that's unfair from my perspective because I'm like pushing stuff on them constantly. Like you need to take on more, you need to take on more instead of just being like, master this thing, man. Just do this. And then once you do that, then we can maybe think about other things, but I'm not trying to make you into the next great general manager out there. And so I've started taking that same mentality hired that guy.
Todd Duplechan (20:41.806)We're doing that, taking that same mentality. I'm trying to look at every single position in the restaurant from the dishwasher to the line cooks, to the lead line cook, to the sous chef, to the chef, everybody. And see, I don't know. Like that's the wonder of this restaurant is I don't know if that's the solution, but we're able to do it because we're in complete control of the place. So maybe that's it. Maybe we just say, Hey, let's try it and make it. And then.
What comes with that is also like these other things that make service too complicated. Well, let's talk about it and say, do we need that? Do we have to do that? And if we do, then do it. And if we don't, then even if it causes a little pain or discomfort on my part, because it's like, I'd rather not do that. Let's at least discuss if we can get rid of it. Because that was also one of our tenants starting out was simplicity. It was a pre-fee menu. We had one wine glass.
We don't have a million different services of things. was like everything came on the same size plate. It was like, that's what I love about Tabla. It's like big bowl, small bowl, big plate, small plate. That was it. That was all the plates. There weren't a million, like a belay. Think about all the different places that we had and all the different things. It was super complicated. And it was like 400 different, you know, panache and bouche and dessert amuse and you know,
Joshua Sharkey (21:53.528)Jesus.
Todd Duplechan (22:09.166)Was it better? It was pretty good. you know, was it overall better? Certainly not.
Michael Jacober (22:15.95)I think this is the, this is like a concept that I think much larger scale restaurant groups who have been at it for decades, eventually sort of, I would say institutionalized the, you know, each position, right. And then it takes years to sort of continue to define those, those positions, which it sounds like you're, you're now you're in the process of doing, have you thought about, you know, doing certifications?
for each position and providing specific, we'll call it career paths or job growth within the organization based on specific certifications. And then how do you certify, right? Like what are the assessments that need to occur in order to certify that person to then move on to that next quote unquote like job, where there is that upper mobility. Like that becomes like, that is another part of architecting your business is, know,
architecting the roles and positions within it and defining that, that, that growth. But it sounds like you're, you're now like going through that practice, which is a really fun exercise. We thought about that, like, you know, like really documenting and defining what the next sort of path with that, let's just say, you know, you converted that person from a.
what was going to be a general manager to now we'll call them a service manager and service managers have specific responsibilities, but how do you elevate from service manager to then unlock additional compensation? And what are the certifications needed in order to do that? Like that. That's I think a super fun, exciting project.
Todd Duplechan (23:54.382)So that's exactly because if you think about, well, the way that a restaurant normally works, it's like you have to be able to pass certain tests to be able to move from a bus or two, a back way or, and so yeah, we're, we've been defining in troughs, obviously all these different positions forever, but it turns into just a laundry list of like, oh, and do this instead of what you're talking about, which is, no, these are the things that you're going to need to do.
to execute this job. And then if you can do that in these other tasks, then we started looking at the next steps. for me, it's more about my problem of trying to constantly add and just say, no, this is the job period. We're not changing the job. And it's probably going to take a little bit for you to get to the mastery of these particular points. And then once we get to that, then
We can start looking at other opportunities. So we don't really have and never really have had a general manager at the restaurant. We've had service managers and beverage managers and stuff like that, because Justin and I are in the restaurant all day, every day. We together are sort of the general manager, which I realize also is like a classic mom and pop bail, right? Where it's just like, yeah, we're in there all the time plugging all these holes. And that's the, that's the real.
thing is if I can get to a point, do what you're saying of organizing all these things and making clear paths for people, the last one, which it may probably shouldn't be the last one will be us. How do we do that for us and say, no, no, no, this is my path and this is my area. And how, what's the, what are the tests that I have to pass myself to graduate into the next position and what is that next position? Right. So just like opening a bar and everything else, there's so much.
learning and doing. really is exciting. Jess and I are in a great spot right now. It's interesting to be working with your wife for so long, for 15 years. our relationship, personal relationship and business relationship is in probably the best spot that it's ever been. It's really good. I'm very happy and very, I don't know, proud is the word to use, but like it's a, in a good spot.
Joshua Sharkey (26:13.006)It's amazing.
Todd Duplechan (26:21.058)We have great conversations.
Michael Jacober (26:22.894)Can we double click on that for a moment and talk about what it's like to not only be married, but also have that life partner also be your business partner. think I'm always curious about what that looks like. can never imagine being in business with my wife. I'm not sure it would ever work. And I don't think I'm alone.
Todd Duplechan (26:45.55)I hear from most people, they're like, don't know how you do it.
Michael Jacober (26:50.094)Yeah. so can I, like, first of all, do you have kids or are you guys, do have, and how old are your children?
Todd Duplechan (26:59.278)15 and 12.
Michael Jacober (27:01.24)So you're still like, you're very, are very invested in your children. You have other children, which happens to be in the form of, That's true. Yeah. You're babysitting adult children as well. Can you kind of talk me through, first of all, like, how did you guys end up deciding, all right, we know that we're romantically involved. Let's now, this is working. Let's take this jump and let's, let's start a business together. Or was it.
Todd Duplechan (27:03.502)Very much in it.
Todd Duplechan (27:11.278)Adult children, yeah.
Michael Jacober (27:29.824)Or was it the opposite? Did it start with you guys are business partners and then...
Todd Duplechan (27:34.312)I wish we were that intentional with anything. We had decided that we wanted to open a restaurant, just like dumb kids do. Like, we're going to go open our own restaurant. moved to Austin. My wife started a business on her own pretty much right away. I got a job. I was the chef of the Four Seasons. And then in my off time, I would go help her with her catering company or home meal replacement company. So we were always working together in that way.
We work together, you know, we cook at home all the time. So first off disclaimer, I would not suggest this for anyone. I don't think that it's an easy process. I think that because of some miracle of the people that we are, we make it work somehow. both are, we both come from the back of house. We're both about that work, man. We're we're doing it all the time, whether it's there's no, Hey, let's just like,
I don't know. don't have like a, so many people are like, the next episode of, I don't know, you name it, TV show. I can't even tell you what TV show is like is on Sunday. We watch it every week. It's like, we don't do that stuff. It's like, if there's time to sit and watch some episodic television show, it's like, is the garage clean? Is the house clean? Is the kitchen clean? You know, it's like, we're grinders.
Michael Jacober (28:54.305)You guys are grinders.
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I want to steal man one that's not necessarily steal man but like one of the benefits I think that can come from it is because you know I I thought and I still sort of think the same thing with my wife like very difficult to like do a business together we've done we do things together she stepped away from her business like five years ago and then she's now to focus on the kids and now she's building this thing with the this this really cool program for the schools with nature and getting the kids outside and she's like in it all the time and there's been a big change for us
because she's in the weeds with this thing that she loves where there's less of the friction between me working the way that I work and the things that I'm trying to work on. And before there was so much of like, spend more, you know, we need more time with you here. And you know, we need more of this, we need more of that. And also just the stress around like, I'm taking care of the house, you're taking care of the, you know, the expenses. I'm still taking care of the expenses, but there's, but there's like, um, this new sort of path for her. I think,
Joshua Sharkey (30:55.854)Even more so if you guys work, if you have the same problem, if you're working on the same problem together, I'm sure there's a lot of, there's like a lot of arguments and if you're fundamentally thinking about things differently, that would be difficult. But generally speaking, you both have the same plight. So like you're, you're struggling in it together. So it's not like, you know, Jess is saying, Todd, you know, you're spending too much time in the business, gotta, you know, because it's, it's a two way street. It's like, well,
Todd Duplechan (31:20.75)She still says that, I mean, it's like, it's understood. It's like, spend more time at work than she does and she spends more time at home than I do. She's in charge of the, we also, you know, divide and conquer and delegate. She does all the calendar stuff for the.
Joshua Sharkey (31:37.026)Is that documented by the way? Do you guys like document the roles?
Todd Duplechan (31:40.9)yeah. So we have, this might be, she might not like that I say this, but we, have a weekly meeting, right? Just the two of us, which is our meeting. and that meeting is we go over our personal finances. go over, our personal lives. It's kind of like, maybe it's like group or couples therapy, that we don't, we don't really go to therapy, but it always kind of devolves into how are you doing? You know, which is a big.
Joshua Sharkey (32:11.278)That's huge.
Todd Duplechan (32:12.046)Right? Because without that kind of weekly check-in or constant check-ins of what are the things that are eating at you and how can we deal with those things? I don't, it wouldn't, I don't think it would work because we're also probably because of being prophets of the back of house, we've been, you know, yelled at and screamed at and told that we're terrible by
you know, some of the best people in the world, some of the most respected people in the world. So if your spouse is like, Hey, I think you need to do better at this. It's like, you, you hear it and you go, okay. All right. Maybe I don't agree, but I don't, I don't get defensive. She doesn't really get defensive. It's like, we've been beat down enough where we're like, all right, I hear, I hear what you're saying. I'm going to, I'm going to think about it and I'm going to get back with you or.
Just like, cause we're grinders, we grind it work, but we also grind it personal. You know, it's like, okay, I'm going to work on myself. I'm going to work on the kids. I'm going to put in the work. That's what life is. It's just doing the work.
Joshua Sharkey (33:19.534)And you guys are cut from the same cloth, but I think it's just really important. There's something about being in kitchens together for an extended period of time where there's a bond that is very hard to break.
Todd Duplechan (33:30.392)Yeah. We still, she still thinks I'm kind of funny some of the times, which helps. That's, that's, that's Well, well. You know, I got a lot of respect for, she, she has so many skills, like the decisive part and stuff like that. But other things like her, does the playlists for the restaurants and our musical tastes and her musical knowledge is just like, once again, that snap decision where she'll hear something, she'd be like, that's good. And then she'll put, she'll make playlists and stuff. And I'm just kind of in awe because I love music too.
But it's like the amount of things that she's introduced me to, I'm just like, man, I would have never known about this or that without her. It's like, it's great. It's such a good skill. I'm so, I'm so happy that she has that skill because she can put these things together and it makes our lives better. It enriches our lives at home and at work and everything. So it's just finding all those little miniature meditations where I have a tree, we have a giant tree in the backyard of the restaurant.
And so much of my life is spent walking. There's two buildings there. is Bonnie's one was the Lenoir. And there's so much time spent walking between these two buildings. And every single time I walk between those buildings, I look up at the tree and you know, unfortunately it makes me forget what I'm doing half the time, but I just take five seconds to look at the tree and watch it move. And it's just, I found that it's just like, it's a little miniature meditation that gets me through the
incredibly ridiculous hard times that the restaurant business are. And I take that to so many parts of my life where it's like, just enjoy some little moment. just like, makes your life so much better. As corny as that sounds.
Joshua Sharkey (35:12.972)I don't know enough about you two to know that you guys take that part also very seriously. I want to shift a little bit though, because I don't get a lot of Todd time and I was bummed that you guys didn't make it up to New York so we couldn't get the kids together, but understandably why. But because you're here, we can keep talking about Bonnie's because I'd love to hear more. But last time we talked, we got in little bit of the weeds of food history. And, you know, I think we've been talking about sort of like, what is the authenticity of food really mean, especially, you know,
where we are in America. You have a lot to say about the history of food in Texas. We can go a couple of different directions there, but we didn't get to touch on that enough when you were on last time with Jess, but obviously there's this huge German immigration to Texas. There's the Spanish immigration to Texas. Texas now has obviously barbecues is really known in Texas, but it really is like a really interesting, you know, world of food among other things, especially where it's located, you know, in terms of latitude.
I'd love to hear, we can go in a couple different directions, either sort of like your thoughts on what does authentic food really mean, given, you know, where you're at. How are you thinking about where things are moving in terms of how we think about food and how history is impacting what's changing in the world of food. And we can stick to either Texas or go broader.
Todd Duplechan (36:32.364)you want. really interesting is that there's a great Jonathan Gold quote that says essentially, authenticity is a moving target. And that is really what drives me is this idea of how food comes about and all these different weird idiosyncratic things that happen to make food what it is. And that's certainly true in Texas, but it's really true anywhere because of history and because of the way that the things unfold.
coupled with nature, that's what, how we get where we are. And then the unfortunate part, I'm a big detractor of authenticity. I don't, when people are like, it's authentic, this is authentic, that it's like, that doesn't mean anything. All that means is that somebody has frozen this thing in time and said, this is it. And it's like, that doesn't, that's asinine, right? If you look at the history, let's just go Texas, right? So you have indigenous people.
They were hunting and gathering and going throughout Texas. There were no pigs here. There was no livestock here. They were hunting deer and rabbits and things that were here and grabbing. What little grows here. I mean, this is like in central Texas and I grew up in North Texas. It's a little bit more green up there. But as you get south and west, it gets pretty sparse as far as wild food goes. And that's also like why there were so few
Native Americans here at that particular time is that there was only enough people here to sustain that could be sustained by whatever wild foods were out there, which was not a lot. we're prone to floods and droughts and all the other stuff. then introduced, you know, the Europeans come. Then we have the influx of pigs and horses and cattle and all these different things. First, obviously the Spanish and then the French come and everybody else.
This was still kind of a no man's land. There wasn't really people here. There were still Native Americans. There was a little bit of settlers that were starting to come. But then at a certain point, there was an incentive for immigrants to move to Texas. Because essentially what they were trying to do, what the rest of the United States was trying to do was make a hostile takeover of Texas from Spain and Mexico. Because they were basically like, if we can just start putting Americans in there, meaning Europeans.
Todd Duplechan (38:56.482)then we can claim like, this is ours. It's not really yours anymore. And that's what ended up happening with the Texas revolution and the Spanish, the war with the, with Mexico and independence and things like that. lot of those people that came here as settlers promised free language, Germans and, and, Eastern Europeans and they brought with them, and this is one of those things that I love. They brought with them cows, right? Cause that's if you're a
German, Northern Germany, it's cloudy, it's rainy, it's lots of grass, cows love it. That's cow country, is gray and rainy, lots of grass, because that's how cows lived up until they came to America and we started feeding them corn. So they were like, this is what we know, this is what we're bringing. They brought them here, absolute catastrophe. mean, it's like cows don't like it here, even though Texas is known for cattle and all this other stuff.
It's really not a great place to raise cattle. It's too hot. There's not enough grass. the weather is too sporadic. want consistent, they're big, inefficient animals. They want, you know, easy weather and they want lots of green, green grass and they don't want to stand in the sun. So, but because they brought them here and they forced it on, they were like, this is what we're going to do. We're going to be raising cows here. Beef became a Texas staple. then you.
incorporate the Mexican culture and open fire cooking and cowboys and all this other stuff, it starts to morph into barbecue. And that's why I come here in 2007 from New York and I really started looking at the food and I'm like, this food doesn't make any sense. Why are we raising, why are we smoking beef? Why is it so beef heavy here? It's 115 degrees in the summertime. Do you really want to go and eat?
a big ass slab of fatty smoke to beat and then walk outside when it's 115 degrees. It doesn't make any sense. We should be eating completely differently here. But because tradition is tradition and authenticity is authenticity, this is how it is. You also look at traditional Texas barbecue, it's like salt and pepper and smoke. Whenever you start thinking about spices, it's like, how did salt and pepper become the de facto? Salt and pepper has nothing to do with
Todd Duplechan (41:24.622)Spanish food or German food or any of that stuff. So all of these ideas really started coming together probably in the 40s and 50s and 60s. And then, so now we're looking at authentic food. This is an authentic food, but it's when people's minds, I think they always think like, they've been doing this since 1700. It's like, no, it's 40 years old. I mean, it's not, it's not really, it's not really that steeped in that much history. Now,
Is it good? Yeah. Is it fun? Absolutely. But I think that when people get too locked in and people get really upset about specifically barbecue, I start to kind of lean out and be like, it's all just, it's all just made up. Right. So why can't we have fun with it? And why can't we just be good? And why can't we all just be striving to make it great? Which is also what's happening.
Right. People, there's traditional barbecue places that do the staples. They do it exactly the way that they do it. And they're great. and then there's people that have come in and been like, we're going to do whatever the hell we want. And, we're still going to be like, this is central Texas barbecue. And both of those places are, are fun. I think you can't have one without the other to a certain extent, but it's at least kind of taking off into a different direction and people are being more creative. So.
We opened a restaurant in right before the pandemic that was a, a Golan restaurant. We, we both worked for Lloyd at Tabla at different times. We actually did. It was like the, it was like the NFL. got traded. You went, I was working for Boulay and then you went to Boulay and then I went to Tabla. So like shifts in the night and just traded, traded spaces. So.
That was one of the first times that I learned about Goa, learned about all the different types of, all the different things in the Indian diaspora and how what a crazy, crazy place India is. And it got the gears turning for me about why, why, why. So just before the pandemic, we opened a Goan restaurant, which, you know, it's like one of those, it's like playing with dynamite. You can't be, you can't really say we're opening a Goan restaurant.
Todd Duplechan (43:45.676)because of authenticity and because of, know, you're dealing with other people's culture, which I am sensitive to. Like that's a real thing. Can't just go in and be like, yeah, we're doing going food and opening up cans of SpaghettiOs. But that place to me was exactly like trying to target this exact thing, which is like, how can you be inspired by a place and think that it's super cool and then try to relate it to the place that you're in? And I think we did a really, really good job. I really.
was happy with that restaurant. think the food was killer. It made it able for me to talk about this very sensitive subject with people and hopefully get them to understand a little bit about where I'm coming from with like, people will come into even Lenoir and say, well, this isn't Subis. And it's like, no, it's not Subis. But we had to name it something. It's close to Subis. And if you know what Subis is, it'll get you in the general area. But no, it's not. And I'm not making Subis.
Because I don't want to. I want to make something similar, but not the same. So I don't know if that really answers your question.
Joshua Sharkey (44:52.904)It's a, obviously it's a topic I'm really passionate about as well. Like this idea of authenticity versus tradition, because tradition makes sense that you can connect to that. And that's, you know, you know, that's where you sort of stamp things in time. But I think it's interesting because it also is something that humans do where we, we, we, find like safety and like connecting to like, Hey, this is what Subis means. Like this is what chowder is. And this is what Vietnamese cuisine is or, or or Goan cuisine.
not realizing that like, hey, wait, the Portuguese actually had this huge sort of impact on, well, the whole world, including India. And like, I always, I always think about Spain because like you think of Spanish food and there's a great book called Delicioso that talks about like the history of, you know, food in Spain. And like you think like Spanish people, but like there was Phoenicians that first brought the olive oil and Romans that like brought farming. And then you have like the Visigoths and then you have the Boars and the Sephardic Jews and
And, you know, French and Italian, all those things meant all these new things that like, layered on top of each other where there was not, you know, work for that. Then there was, there was not rice until the Arabs came. There wasn't spices. wasn't orange. Like those things were not incorporated in the paella that you see today exists because of a number of those cultures. You know, the Carthaginians were the ones that started eating rabbit and the Moors brought rice and you know, this, we stick to these things that like, here's, this is what authentic means. And.
I think about it just across food, like in anything that we're doing, anything we're building, like humans, think find safety in thinking about like, this is how it's always been. So don't change it. But everything always changes. That's the whole point is that even when we think about America is this melting pot. And that's why like we bastardize all these things. And this is what now Italian is here versus there. But every country did that. Every country started with, you know, some culture and another culture came, they got murdered and they brought this thing and.
Genghis Khan digs over all and puts his culture in. And I think that's what is so fascinating about food is you see this, you basically see this like wheel of a tree of the inside of a tree. Like here's all the stuff that's happened over the course of hundreds or thousands of years that got to you eating barbecue. And what I think we often forget is like the thing you're eating today, barbecue in a hundred years because of Todd and other people.
Joshua Sharkey (47:17.964)it will be something else. that's what I think is super cool. And that's what I wanted to chat with you more about is like, what's...
Todd Duplechan (47:27.278)It's the ultimate Pandora's box of just like once you start learning a little bit, you realize you don't know anything. And then you look, the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. And that goes for pretty much everything. But food is, you start learning about food and then you start learning about history simultaneously. And then it's intimidating, but then it's also very freeing. Cause then you're like, I can do whatever I want. Cause people did whatever they want.
And if you can take those ideas, whenever we opened Linemar, the idea of Linemar was hot weather food. So the idea was people have been eating beef and all this other stuff that doesn't really make sense for the climate because it kind of was forced into existence here. So why don't we really look at it from our mantra, start with the farmers. What can they grow really well? Well, they're going to grow things that grow well in hot places. So.
let's let them grow what they can grow easily and well, and then we'll decide how we're going to turn that into food. And we're going to use as inspiration other hot places. So we're looking at Northern Mexico, we're looking at North Africa, we're looking at Southeast Asia. So if you start looking at all of those places around the world, then you start realizing that food is very similar. Lots of chilies, it's lots of brothy, it's lots of citrus. It's not super meat heavy. And it's certainly not super fat heavy because fats don't, unless it's animal fat.
Because cream and butter, just like I said, cows don't like it here. They're not producing a ton of heavy, cream heavy milk if they're producing milk at all. So it was pretty easy then to just slide into like, well, we're just going to look at North African food and say, what's similar about that to some Northern food from Northern Mexico. And these are the things that we have and we can put it together. We're also dealing with here a, everything that we think about in the, in the United States is based on
the calendar, like the food calendar of the Northeast. So when pumpkins come in, when berries are in the summertime and asparagus is at this time and that time, that's all wrong here. We get winter squash in September. get tomato, it's tomato season right now. It's almost over, right? Berries have already happened. Asparagus has already happened. It's over, right? In the middle of summer, really all we get is peppers, eggplants, okra.
Todd Duplechan (49:48.076)you know, and winter squash. So then you start looking at it and go, does winter squash and ochre go together? I don't know. I guess we're going to find out because that's what we have. So the food world, this is unfortunate because I'm turning this into the, probably a different podcast, but it's so interesting that you can spend, you can get totally lost and immersed in it. And this is also the issue with why there's
why I'm never satisfied with where Lenoir is, is because it's endless. The inspiration and what we could do and how we can work with our farmers. It's just, they're so, we're tapped into 1 % of what we could potentially do at this place. But you got to, at a certain point, sit with it and be like, what's realistic and can we, can I satiate my desire to
to make and to do all these things and come up with ideas. I don't think I can. So how else am I going to do it? And the way I figured out to do it is building things. You know, I really enjoy, I built the bar, but I just built a table. I learned to weld. I learned, you know, it's like, there's other avenues that I can chase down. I'm driving everybody crazy, I guess, at the restaurant with the untapped, their untapped potential.
Michael Jacober (51:14.862)That's actually a good segue for this question. obviously there's, there's, we're talking about restaurants, like the food experience, the actual, you know, crafting of the menu, the sourcing of the ingredients. That's one component of authenticity. How do you think about the actual space and the dining experience and the room and the vibe as playing into
this concept of authenticity. There's obviously many different ways to kind of pull on that, you know, to pull on that string. There's, there's, there's guys who are incredible at replicating, you know, I was back to Keith McNally, like, think Balthazar is the most beautiful French brasserie even in Paris, right? Like it's like, it is just an incredible room and, you know, how,
How do you think about that, whether it's replicating or trying to create what it is that, you know, is making Lenoir or Bonnie's, these rooms and these experiences authentic?
Todd Duplechan (52:25.794)For me, at the beginning and still even whenever we're building on and changing things, so much of what's important to me is sustainability. And one of the other aspects of what we did at L'Henloir was about tangible sustainability. And this probably dovetails a lot into doing a bunch of things that nobody knows or cares about. But for me, it's part of the ambiance, it's part of the story and it gives our staff, I feel like...
comfort in the same way to be like, we're not just talking about it. I can point to things and be like, this is it. So all of our furniture is like repurposed or secondhand or all of our plates, same deal. All of our silverware, we're going out and buying things that essentially would end up in the garden. Right? So grandma's old plateware set that is cool, but nobody wants that ends up at Goodwill.
That's where we buy all of our plates. give all the plates and all the silverware their last hurrah. We've worked those things to death. They've actually, most of them never been used. But we give them, they serve their purpose before they go to the, before they go to the dump. Right. And the way that the restaurant is built and originally built and then currently rebuilt, so much of the thought went to how is this impacting things? are, what's headed to the dump?
Joshua Sharkey (53:25.432)Ha ha.
Todd Duplechan (53:46.804)And how can we stop that? And then obviously throughout service, I want people to feel very comfortable in the restaurant. Austin is a different place than New York. don't, we do have a couple now restaurants that are, I think if you were in them, you would say that the service was comparable to larger cities, like larger food cities like New York and LA maybe, or Chicago, things like that, where you're getting a specific type of high end service there. That is great. We don't.
Our place is a lot more about welcoming service and we practice a lot of silent service stuff, but it's pretty informal in just mainly because the space doesn't make it where you could be super formal. But for us being inviting, keeping it where you feel like you're in Austin, Texas.
That's very important for us. And not, I don't want it to feel like I could be anywhere. I want it to be authentic to where you're like, this is a room that I'm in Austin and these are the touches and this is the feel that I get from this place. I know where I am in the world. And that's of the service that we're getting and the people that are there and the food that's on the plate. Now, is it distinctive? It should be, but that's also kind of goes into.
I think a long time ago you could look at people's plates and say that's so-and-so, right? You could just take a picture of a plate and say that's Michelle Bra, right? Now I don't think that that's the case so much anymore because of the democratization of information maybe, but that's what I'm hoping for with our places that you'll, even though the menu changes a ton, it's still like that's a little more plate, hopefully pretty obviously. And then when you're in the place, you feel comfortable, you feel like you're in
central Texas. I know it's a, a bit ambiguous of an answer, we are still such a small mom and pop operation that these are the things that we're drilling with our people is that, you know, we want to be silent service, but we also want to be very welcoming and hospitality is the first thing you're talking with people. You're spending time with your tables, all that stuff.
Michael Jacober (56:08.652)you mention the word like, you know, the term small mom and pop, because there's so many, and you guys aren't tiny. Obviously you're not a massive enterprise, but you've, you've now created, I mean, you currently are operating three businesses on the same. Is everything on the same block?
Todd Duplechan (56:26.868)Everything is on the same block. It's so funny because Josh and I worked for RULAY and he had like five businesses on the same block.
Joshua Sharkey (56:34.286)We also bought milk from the bodega.
Todd Duplechan (56:36.524)Yeah, we also talk about sourcing. That's some good sourcing.
Joshua Sharkey (56:41.294)It was it was wild they're on the same block but like we also had to buy our milk for the bodega
Todd Duplechan (56:47.406)We should round this off with just crazy blu-ray stories, actually. Whenever you would call somebody to come work on equipment and they would get there and they would hand you an invoice and leave and be like, I just need this refrigerator fixed. And they're like, pay that invoice and I'll fix it. It's like, man. So I'm sorry, ADD kicked in and...
Joshua Sharkey (57:11.278)No, was, I interrupted you because that's my fault because as soon as you brought it up I was like, trauma coming up.
Michael Jacober (57:19.118)I'd love to talk through the methodology around creating dynamic businesses next to each other, right? As opposed to the concept of like, well, Lenoir is crushing it. Let's open up a whole bunch of these Lenoirs. Let's go here. Let's go to this other town. As opposed to, and I've seen this in, you I used to own restaurants in Brooklyn. It was a very similar methodology of like, all right, instead of thinking about scaling this one concept, let's look at the neighborhood. Let's see what the neighborhood needs.
that space is opening up. We've got an inn on that lease or we can go buy that building. What could be cool there? you know, we've already got the coffee shop here. We've already got like, let's do ramen. How do you think about, what was the genesis behind, you you opening up different concepts on the same block? And has that been not only a pleasant experience, but has it been a lucrative experience?
Todd Duplechan (58:13.368)I think that in all honesty, creating a dynamic restaurant would be great. But again, my aspirations, I'm always trying to achieve places that are dynamic and great. I think just like baseball would be failing probably most of the time. Now, do people notice that? I think people really enjoy our restaurants, but I'm always like, that is a good question. How do I do that?
How do I make these places dynamic and great more consistently? So that's maybe the answer to your question is that I'm constantly thinking about that. I'm constantly thinking about how can we make it better for ourselves? How can we make it better for our guests? How can we make it better for our employees? And opening three places that are all in the same block is a, like I said, from related times, like it's not a great idea. You're your own competition.
But at the same time, have a nicer restaurant, I have a bar, and then I have a neighborhood pizza place. So in your example of what does the neighborhood need? That's why we did what we did for, we opened Lenoir for the altruistic points that I made before. We opened the pizza place because it was like, first of all, well, pizza makes money, but also that space, I've been across the street from that space for
Michael Jacober (59:33.806)It's mixed money.
Todd Duplechan (59:40.718)15 years and I've watched eight restaurants come and go from that space. And it's a way better space than Lenoir is. And so finally people were, had the lease and they were friends of mine and they're like, Hey, this, were consulting on a project there that wasn't going to make it. they're like, Hey, we're going to change this. Do you want to come in on it? And I was like, so part of my business mind was like, well, if another restaurant is coming to the block and I had the ability to.
have say so and what it is, then why wouldn't I do that? Because I don't want a little more clone across the street potentially. So then, you know, that became a group idea of what is the neighborhood need. And what I thought the neighborhood needed was a neighborhood restaurant. People had been trying to put nice restaurants in there for a long time because it's a nicer neighborhood. And what people, I think a lot of times don't really understand is that they'd see nice neighborhoods. And I'm like, these are rich people.
They eat caviar and foie gras and drink champagne every night. So let's open a really expensive restaurant and then just get a rake and just start raking that money in. And it's like, no, rich people eat pizza and rich people at hamburgers, like just like everybody else. So. Yeah.
Joshua Sharkey (01:00:53.134)I mean, this might also solve your other conundrum you had of like, you want to be able to always do more and try different things and building more businesses.
Todd Duplechan (01:01:00.482)that means. Well, it's part of the thing of building Bonnie's part of the really fun part of building it. Cause I was, when I say build it, mean, I was, it's a pure and being building, which I don't know, you know, essentially it's like a building that's built on the ground on blocks on piers. So to do work on it, you're literally underneath the building in the dirt, like running plumbing and running.
cable wires and stuff like that, or Europe in an attic that's 120 degrees. So I was doing that work with this thing and it stunk. I don't like small spaces at all. actually the probably my, you know, it's a bad thing for me. But while I was doing it and freaking out, I was like taking solace in the idea that this is the last time I'm doing this. Just enjoy it. I'm never opening another restaurant again. So.
I'm still kind of holding to that, but it's kind of like having kids. You're like, you know, time passes and then you start going, well, you know, what would be cool is this thing. So, you know, the pizza place is great. And now that Lenoir is in a good spot, Bonnie's hopefully will be in a good spot pretty soon. My plan is to get back into the pizza place. I feel like I've been gone for six months while working on these places across the street, even though I'm there every day.
start to apply this, a similar, the similar, you know, columns idea that I've been working on at the other places. Like how do we make this place incrementally better every, every day? How do we make it better for the employees? How do we make it better for the guests and give, do I make it exactly that? How do I make it my, the pizza place that I want to go to all the time, which it already is, but a room that I want to be in a room where it's just like, yeah, this is a cool place to be. I just want to.
Joshua Sharkey (01:02:40.92)do you make it your
Todd Duplechan (01:02:55.288)What I find at Bonnie's is I'm doing my work, instead of in the office, I doing it in the bar. And it's like, it's because that's where I want to be. And that has been a bit eye opening. And so it's like now same deal. look across the street and I go, how do I make that place into the place where I want to take my laptop over there and just be in there? So it's, know, I I'm a person that I'm smart enough to know that I'm not that smart. So.
It takes me time to figure, work through things and figure it out. And that this is what I do. I'm a very organic process person. I'm sitting in my bar. had this realization of like, places that I, that you're building are for people to have. For the public to come into and want to be in. Duh. And then looking at my other places and saying, is that what we're doing there? Is that, do I feel the same level of comfort in these other places that I do here? And then.
How do I change that?
Joshua Sharkey (01:03:56.302)I always think about this like very simple novel ideas that make sense that people tell you often. I always, I think about this a lot. Like someone will tell me the same thing a hundred times, but I have to do it and I have to experience it and fuck up a lot to truly, to like true. I could say, yep, that makes sense. Your five first hires are the most important thing ever. Like that makes a ton of sense. But until you do the opposite way and see how, like how that impacts things.
You don't truly know and like you've been doing this for decades and this realization of how do I make this a place that I just want to go every day? Yep. you just, you know, it takes that much, you know, being in it to really make it stick that way. And I'm excited for you because now you can have that lens and go look at everything that you're doing through that lens. And you guys already have incredible spots and this is just going to make them better.
Todd Duplechan (01:04:48.588)Yeah, hopefully, hopefully my taste holds out, you know, and the, and the decisions that I'm making are the right ones where it's like, this is what I want. That's how I felt about doing Bonnie's. was like, people are going to, if people don't like this place, that's that basically is going to say that people don't like what I like. They don't like my taste at all. Yeah. and luckily, you know, it's been validated to a certain extent where people are like, no, it feels great in here. So that's been cool, but yeah, it's a, we'll see. It's all just a giant, experiment and.
We'll- we'll muddle through one way or another.
Joshua Sharkey (01:05:22.158)Do we need to end on our wildest Boolie stories?
Todd Duplechan (01:05:27.31)Yes, you go first
Joshua Sharkey (01:05:28.6)Well, one might not be actually bullet, it might be my fault.
Todd Duplechan (01:05:31.406)because you were working there?
Joshua Sharkey (01:05:33.545)Well, you know that there's lots of, you know, crazy things that have happened. He used to bring in pigs. I know if you remember, remember he would bring in pigs and like, um, change the menu at the last minute. One time he brought in a pig and, uh, changed the menu at the last minute. And I had to like make some fresh pasta, like at the last minute and a couple of things. And there, the pig was down in the walk-in hanging. And I ran down to get some fennel for something. I know what it was. And then I was in the walk-in by myself and I thought, you know what, let me just.
smack his butt a little bit. Let me dance with it a little bit. As I was dancing with this pig, maybe there's a little gyration, Luley walks in and he's like, hey, Josh.
Todd Duplechan (01:06:16.088)Well, that's good. That's That's good because he knew your name. That's a big one, actually.
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:17.39)So there's a
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:24.642)Well, typically when he would say my name it would be followed up with, you know, over there we didn't do it that way. Over there. Remember? Like over there.
Todd Duplechan (01:06:30.254)Yeah.
Across the street because he moved his restaurant from over there a hundred yards away to over here to the tune of You know, probably eight million dollars. So Jesus
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:43.586)Your turn, by the way.
Todd Duplechan (01:06:45.166)So I'm trying to figure out which would be appropriate for family dealing, but
Joshua Sharkey (01:06:52.534)well i mean i just talked about
Todd Duplechan (01:06:54.77)Yeah. Well, so let me, let me start with a good one. Okay. So whenever I went and, and stash it the day and you to get a job there, I worked all of service. It was great. Like it was very cool. It very eye opening. was certainly the best restaurant that I had ever worked in or been in, in the kitchen. It was super cool at that point. And so I'm working and the chef was like, you know, you can do it. Right. Which was always a big.
if with people coming in, like, can they do it? And I was like, yeah, you can do it. And he's like, normally what we do is we sit people down that when we're offering them a job, you go change clothes and you go sit at the bar and we'll feed you. And I was like, this is all I had. It's like, I came here in a chef coat and that's all I got. And he's like, I'm not sending you out in the dining room. in that, that's, you're gross. So they're like, he's like, pull up right here, gave me a, a dish, rack.
sat on a dish rack right next to the pass and they fed me 10 or 12 courses, right? Just sitting there and explaining every course and all this other stuff. So that to me is probably still the best dining experience I've ever had because it was unbelievable food, unbelievable team. Uh, Mario's the shop there was a very talented fella. It was unbelievable. So that was,
Awesome. Also one night two cooks were arguing about me's. One of the cooks said, like, take it and like walked by and, and grab some spatsle out of their me's, right. And like eating it. And they started arguing and you know, people argue whatever back and forth. And then the one cook punched the other cook in the mouth and knocked out his two front teeth. Oof. On the lot. And it was like.
Uh, now what? Like that guy's got to leave. He's got to go to the what's going, we're in the middle of service. Like there's no, and of course at the Danube, there was no backups. There was no bench. There was, it was just like, everybody was working all the time. And so that was a pretty chaotic day, uh, at the Danube. And then were you there? No, you weren't there for that. That was before you got there. Somebody at Boulay.
Todd Duplechan (01:09:21.271)So there was the family. Should we bring up the family?
Joshua Sharkey (01:09:24.46)Yeah, why not? Yeah.
Todd Duplechan (01:09:26.124)The family was a family very loosely put of like prep cooks and butchers and stuff like that. They were all Dominican and they held it down. Like the upper end of the family, the main people was the main butchers and prep people and they were really great and talented, put out a bunch of stuff. But then because it was a family, there was like, you know, the cousins and whoever, and they were all throughout the Mule Empire.
Joshua Sharkey (01:09:37.218)Great chicken.
Todd Duplechan (01:09:56.166)And one of the guys was working, Garmelchet maybe or something at Boulay. And he got into an argument with one of the other line cooks. And you know, I've often thought that in restaurants, we're surrounded by deadly weapons all the time. And nobody really uses any of those things and gets hurt. But at this particular point, they were getting into an argument and the guy that was in the family like reaches into his pocket.
and pulls out a switch blade and it like, like it's, I don't know, a movie. And it's like, you want to go outside, bro? And the lion cook was like, uh, so he went to the chef and the chef was like, he's like, listen, back, I just literally, it wasn't like he pulled a chef's knife off the board. He pulled a weapon out of his pocket and threatened me with it. And long story short, the chef's response was, aw, but he's, he's, he's in the family. So.
And the guy was like, look, it's me or him. And he was like, man, he's in the family though. It's like, so it was him, which is unbelievable. Like as far as any, at any place you're working, but especially at a place that was as nice as that restaurant was.
Joshua Sharkey (01:11:13.71)It's amazing how incredible restaurant was and how like poorly run. I mean the, Palm puree, which is like one of the, you know, like a classic, you know, like the, the, the, crescent potatoes cook them. You pass them to the Tammy, you pass them through a dry amount. You got the stash of well, beautiful thing. No, no recipe for anything. You know, the ocean herbal broth is this famous thing, just no recipes for anything. And then you get kind of like yelled at for not making it right. that was a big part of why Mies was a big.
You know, a big inspiration was like, man, that doesn't make any sense. It's not like a cool thing that you don't have that. I remember once though, like the O'sherbo broth was like one of the most famous dishes and it was a mess to make because you had all these different like oils. You had like parsley oil, chive oil. It was more like parsley water and you had the clam broth and fennel broth and you know, you had to make all these oils, which I remember the first time I made them, no one taught me, you know, what to do. Like I would never know to saute the parsley. Anyways, this one, I forget who the kid's name was, but.
His sauce was like, you always had to make it green, right? Like it had to be perfect.
Todd Duplechan (01:12:16.758)It had to be blue. Yes, that was something that we still talk about. Is it blue, green?
Joshua Sharkey (01:12:22.158)Yeah. And, you know, and there was one kid, I don't remember, he came from Gary Danko, and he would stash green food coloring. And we all knew it. And then one day he got called out, he's like, hey, like, come on, man, this clearly looks like you're using food coloring. He's like, no, I'm not. And he had a giant, like, eyebrow of green food coloring on his head. was hilarious.
Todd Duplechan (01:12:49.506)Yeah, that place is great. Yeah, I know I was surprised, you know, coming from, that was my first job coming to New York and I got the job and then I start training with the guy and I was like, okay, where are the recipes? Where's the recipe book? And he's like, just, just, you got something to write on? And I was like, yeah. So I pulled out my notebook and he just starts talking like, he said this, this, and I'm like writing. I'm like, but where's the recipe book? Like,
This is written down somewhere. Right. And he's like, no, and I still have it. kept it because it's funny to me, but I have because, that was the first day of training. And then as it went on, have a parchment paper that has on one side, all recipes for like five or six different things. And on the other side was the order. Cause it would be like, you'd be the end of the night after a, you know, 12, 14 hour day of getting your ass kicked. And then it'd be like, uh,
What do we need for tomorrow? And somebody would pull out a piece of parchment paper and start writing down like, we need corn, we need duck, we need, and it's just like, you just start writing it down. That was the system for ordering things. It's like, yeah, I don't know why the place is.
Joshua Sharkey (01:14:01.902)Some of it they actually wouldn't give. remember all the sorbet. Cesar was very particular about his sorbet. His tomato sorbet, his fig sorbet. He wouldn't give you the recipe. Like, dude, I have to make this.
Todd Duplechan (01:14:13.216)Cesar was a whole nother realm, a whole nother planet in the solar system of Bule because there was like, you know, there's the family and there's Cesar and he was, it was, and probably still is a maniac, like super talented. Because I worked at the Danube, he was always very nice to me. And I don't know why, but he was certainly not very nice to a lot of people.
And yeah, that same thing. He would not give out recipes. But he would also, he would make it all himself. And then he would tell you about how great it was and how much you suck.
Joshua Sharkey (01:14:49.582)actually found him to be quite kind. It's just that I more felt bad for him because he's an uber talent, but you can tell there's something, you know, like not...
Todd Duplechan (01:14:58.062)Yeah. Did you ever work with Todd there? McDonald? He was a sous chef. think he left before you got there, but he was sous chef under Gail, not Galen, but, the previous chef anyway, Shane, Shane. so he transitioned into Cesar. And he said to me one day in, a moment of weakness, because he was also very talented and a very good.
leader and held his shit together and was kind of beyond reproach in so many ways he was just like god it's like he says our walks in every day and he just opens up his jacket and unleashes of i'm get stormed to this entire place it's just like it's and he's like
Joshua Sharkey (01:15:44.418)He was also treated pretty poor. I remember working on a duck, we were working on this like duck confit terrine or something and it was delicious and we like, was great. And it was exciting to make it with him. And I remember vividly like we were like, you know, starting service and we were like slicing up, plating it up and Boulay walks in and he's like, what the fuck is this? We're not a brasserie. didn't even taste it. He's just like, get it. You know, and that's like, you know, to imagine to have to, you know, to have to deal with that.
Todd Duplechan (01:16:12.258)Yeah, I think that he was a lot harder on Cesar than he was other because he certainly wasn't that way with Mario. Although Mario, Mario just ran that restaurant. There was very little interaction. He didn't really come in and assess anything or do anything. And their interactions were very formal. I don't know, maybe because Mario was European or who knows. Yeah, he definitely, I feel like he treated Cesar differently, but he also, you know.
He was an interesting dude. didn't, I was stooge up there, didn't know my name. Certainly. So.
Joshua Sharkey (01:16:47.16)Yeah, I was also like sous chef. I think, you know, they, when I was brought over from the GM from Tabla to come to Boulay, they're like, yeah, you'll be a sous chef. I was not a fucking sous chef. Like I was nowhere near a sous chef.
Todd Duplechan (01:16:58.71)Yeah, but that's the other thing is like, what does that mean? It means that you're essentially a lead line cook because to be a sous chef and to have managerial responsibilities and all of those stuff, there was none of that. There was not like, you know, you were writing orders on parchment paper. wasn't, you know, a big point of concern for that, for the Danube also was like, you know, we had reservations that were taken in that building down the road and we'd have
168, 170 covers, 140 of which were at seven o'clock. And it's like, this is a 60 seat restaurant, guys. Like how is this supposed to happen? And you know, if you're a sous chef or you're a chef, you have some sort of clout to be up like, Hey, this can't happen this way. And then they were just like, I would go over to that office and be like, what gives here thinking that I was the sous chef and I was somebody and they'd be like, get out of here.
go, go back over there. And it's like, shit. So yeah, it was a different world. And luckily I don't think places run that way anymore. That's one of those things where people, the old timers like us lament the good old days when people were tough and whatever. And it's like, yeah, but that was also a really well respected restaurant and it was an absolute disaster.
Joshua Sharkey (01:18:23.508)I mean, the people that have gone through there, just when we were there, was Christina Tosi and PJ Kalapa and Evan Rich and, you know, Jess Marr.
Todd Duplechan (01:18:31.846)And you
Todd Duplechan (01:18:36.184)tomorrow that you've been really famous people
Joshua Sharkey (01:18:38.606)We can end on that. We've got more on the weeds than we should have and Mike, I apologize that we went on a tangent. I'm really grateful you found some time for us, especially, you you're in the middle of a new baby and of a restaurant. I'm going to get to Austin soon. I'm checking out. Tell your lovely wife that you said hello and let's do it
Todd Duplechan (01:19:01.358)Yeah. Yeah. This was a lot of fun. I listened to the podcast all the time. I think it's great. There's not a ton. There's not enough good food podcasts out there or restaurant podcasts, I guess is more of what this is. And I've learned a lot. you know, in that thinking about how you're changing and getting better, I've always considered myself a just an anti-technology person. And because of some of the things I've heard on this podcast, I'm reconsidering, you know, a lot of that stuff and it's great.
It's great to grow, learn new things, and not have to go to school for it.
Joshua Sharkey (01:19:36.526)Absolutely, well that's why Mike's here now, he's actually the smart, educated one.
Todd Duplechan (01:19:41.301)please.
Joshua Sharkey (01:19:43.47)Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you liked this episode or any other ones, you can actually check out more of this at getmes.com slash Josh. That's G-E-T-M-E-E-Z slash J-O-S-H. I have my podcast there, The Mese Podcast, plus some other shows and interviews. Starting to write some stories and blog posts, some recipes, recaps, things like that. So I think you'll enjoy it. Again, it's getmes.com slash Josh. G-E-T-M-E-Z.
Thank you very much. Very grateful for all of you.
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