Shawn Gawle: I worked there when I was a kid. I always enjoyed being around it. And then once I was kind of old enough to like manage a knife, I don't know, 12, 13, 14, he taught me how to cut an onion. My [00:04:00] first cut was there and it was cutting an onion. Like I still have like. In indent in my thumb.
But yeah, I always enjoyed being around it, so, and I saw his workers have fun now. That's just what I saw. Now there's obviously more in depth stories and problems throughout the years, right? Like any restaurant or, or a deli. But like, I always saw 'em get along and have fun and I had fun being around it, and that's why I kind of chose to go down this path.
It's like, you might as well have fun what you do, what you love. So
Josh Sharkey: what kind of, I mean, what you, when you say deli, is this like cat's deli or is this like literally like slicing Turkey on a
Shawn Gawle: uh, well it was a Jewish Dell Cassen, uh, in South Shore Massachusetts.
Josh Sharkey: What it called,
Shawn Gawle: uh, it was called Ed's Poultry Farm Kitchen.
So it was actually my grandfather's before that. And my grandfather's name is Ed and he had a chicken farm. And my dad, when he was a kid, he delivered eggs. So it's kind of funny, like he was the egg man. He delivered eggs to my mom. He, he. Choo, uh, that's how he
Josh Sharkey: met your mom? [00:05:00]
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, well, they grew up and, and went to high school together and everything, but he literally delivered eggs.
They sold manure. It was more like a country store back in the fifties, sixties. And when my dad took it over and bought it for my grandfather, he turned it into a Jewish descent. So, so, you know, whether it be sandwiches, sliced meats, uh, you know, pastrami tongue sandwiches, that sort of thing. He did breakfast and lunch, uh, catering, uh, a lot of rotisserie chickens, uh, that sort of thing.
So,
Josh Sharkey: yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, it wasn't kosher, but there was just a large, uh, Jewish community in South Shore, south Shore, Massachusetts, uh, Sharon And Stoughton. And Brockton.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yeah. What's, what's the place? Um. Zix, is that, is that the name of it? Uh, yeah, the one in, uh, Brookline. Yeah. I used to visit my, my sister lives in, in Boston.
I used to go there a lot. You know, it's, I mean, your dad wasn't a chef, right? And he starts a deli. He starts doing all these things. Yeah. I dunno about you. Like I was, [00:06:00] I was interviewing this, uh, I might have just said this story, but it still keeps coming up in my mind. I was interviewing the, the owners of this, of this insanely delicious ice cream shop.
They're, they, they've since left the ice cream shop. It's still around, called Ample Hills. And, um, this guy, Brian, uh, you know, he's working on this new concept and he was making these like chicken burgers for me. They were so fucking delicious. And it's, you know what it, it, it amazes me like we, we come up in these fine dining restaurants.
We worked for years and years, learning all these techniques. And it seems like, you know, the, the biggest proponent of like, what drives like just making good food is necessity and curiosity. You know, like your dad obviously wasn't a. A chef, but Yeah. But he created this, you know, deli that you learned from that.
I'm, I'm assuming that food was pretty damn good.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, like, I still remember, like he to this day never says he is, he was ever a chef, but they, like, he was a cook. Um, and he managed and he owned, but like, man, he made some delicious, uh, gravy [00:07:00] and like chicken noodle soup or a chicken salad.
Like that's what I remember in like his roter chickens. But it's like, it was kind of soulful, right? It was simple, soulful. It was delicious. Uh, I remember as a kid when we would go to, you know, New Hampshire or, or you know, Maine to go skiing, like he would bump into people and he, they would know the deli, you know, it was like, it was kind of cool.
Um, but yeah, I mean, for what he did, it was good, you know?
Josh Sharkey: That's awesome. What, what do you think was your biggest takeaway that you still sort of like, implement today with, you know, how you cook? Or at least, or how you were in a business, or,
Shawn Gawle: well, I mean, he definitely instilled in me to. To try to be my own boss or be my own or to, to be an owner.
It just took forever. 'cause I mean, I always felt like there was always more to learn. Right. You know, from a young age. I mean, I try to remember back then just to try to have fun, which is hard sometimes 'cause it's the, the restaurant industry's stressful, you know, and it's like, so, but you have to be, you know, humbled and, and [00:08:00] realize that it's like you're not cooking for yourself, you're cooking for others.
And it's like, you have to kind of like give them the substance and something delicious. Right. And it could be simple. Very simple.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. It's, it is really hard to like, figure out a balance of having fun when you have all the stress. Especially if you're, you know, at a restaurant that's gonna be reviewed or is gonna, you know, is upfront on the review or could lose a Michelin star or could get, you know, sure.
There's so much stress there and it's so personal. You know, when you have a team that's executing your food, it's a representation of you. It's, it is really hard to like balance. How do you have fun and also make sure that everybody's doing the thing that you need them to do. That is this, it's such a part of representing who you are.
Yeah. How do you like figure out ways to have fun? I mean, you're now, you're just open another restaurant, you got a whole team. Yeah. How do you figure out ways to have fun when, when it's such a high stress situation?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, I mean it's I guess an ongoing challenge, right? But I mean, you kind of just, you have to take a deep breath.
[00:09:00] You have to re like remember things of the past. I mean, it definitely helps like the last two weeks, what helps is seeing the guests and how they're enjoying things or interacting with them. Or what helps me too is having a young cook and being able to show them product or a technique and having them understand it or, or having them just be genuinely like enthused or happy or like engaged, right?
Like that stuff helps you know, and sure like you. Come across a cook that comes by and you can be chummy or joke around a little bit. But I think it's, it, it lasts a lot more and it's so much more meaningful when I can see the impact on someone. Um, and that's what I've found throughout the, throughout my career, is what kind of makes me happy.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: You know, and I think we all need a release outside of work too, to have that balance, uh, life work balance. So it took me a long time to find that. And like, you know, [00:10:00] some of my past mentors, you know, like Laura Lauren grad told me, you know, you, when we were doing L two O, 'cause I was super stressed and I, I lost a bunch of weight, like, uh, and I was just working my ass off.
And like, he could tell, he is like, you know, you need like a sport. And I was like, okay, great. Like when do I have time to do that? You know, it's like I'm already working 14, 15 hours. Uh, like I looked into it, but it's like, it's hard to.
Josh Sharkey: What did he say? Did you ask him what, when have time to do that?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, well, yeah, he is, he's like, you know, you need to make time like you're off Tuesday.
So I was like, okay, well I like to ice skate and play hockey. There's not a pickup league that, that does that on those day, you know? Yeah. But it, but it does help. And like, you know, during COVID, my wife got me into cycling, and you can kind of do that anytime. There's a couple other things and, or it's just like, you know, walking the dog or like going to the art museum or something like this.
Right. Yeah. Like something else. And when you have that [00:11:00] too, you can always, and you, you can also get inspired.
Josh Sharkey: That's right. Yep.
Shawn Gawle: You can drive yourself crazy by trying to think of an idea, but when you actually release and you just plant the idea in the back of your head subconsciously, like, things will come out when you're relaxed too.
Josh Sharkey: That's right. Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: You know, like, you know, reading or like trying to read different books than just cookbooks. Right. But like non-industry books or some are. More about leadership, some like, one is called barring brilliance, right? Like I got a lot from that. Like, you know, it's okay that like everything's kind of been done, but how do you take something from another field or another chef and make it your own a little bit?
Right? And be honest about it. So it's like, like, it's okay. Like it's not totally imposter syndrome. So sorry, I might be going all, all
Josh Sharkey: around. No, no, I, I, I totally agree man. It's, you know, the fun part's important. I always, that's my hardest part is actually trying to find ways to have fun. I mean, I love what I do.
So, so there's, there's that. But you also, uh, [00:12:00] as a creator, as someone who's creative, you have to have these sort of juxtaposed things that you do because that's, that actually I think is what sparks the most like, unique creativity. You know, like I think about like, you know, Benjamin Franklin created those Juntos when he was, you know, back in the day that would like bring all these different types of disciplines together, you know, a scientist and a mathematician and a.
You know, and an artist and, and, and new ideas. That's how they would kind of get sparked is because you have these, like, these, these opposing, not opposing, but like different mediums coming together. Yeah. And if you're gonna make something unique, that's yours, that's your food, you know, and all you ever do is, is work for the cra and work for Michael and work for, you know, for, for these chefs.
Then you will, lots of people have done that. They might have done as not as many of you as you have, but it's whatever your unique sort of background is and then all the other things that you bring to the table. Yeah. I think we, we forget about that sometimes, especially as chefs 'cause it's so sort of myopically, like, just work harder hours, do this for 20 years and you know, and you forget that [00:13:00] like the thing that actually makes your food really exciting is the things that you bring to it outside of that.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. I mean, well meanwhile, you know, as much as I learned from working for, you know, Michael Tubs for Lauren Gra or Joshua Skees or Paul Brandt, you know, I'm continually learning from even like my past cooks. That it moved on. And, you know, one of my old su like my pastry Sue, is the executive past chef at Cyrus and works for Douglas Keen, you know, and it's like, I'm so impressed with what Josh is doing there.
And like, I've actually chatted with Douglas Keen and he's so crowd of him, and like, we've talked on the side before we've ever met now, now we've met. But he was such an open book person and he was like, Hey, when I thought about Cyrus 2.0, I thought about X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, well, I do you have time to talk more?
Because I could get some ideas of like how we can move comradery and think about camaraderie differently, right? Because there's a lot of great things, uh, that I [00:14:00] got from all these fine dining restaurants, but there's a lot that I, I didn't love about some of them, right? And we have to think about things differently.
But, uh, you know, you, you continually learn. And I, that's what I love about the industry is that like, it's so supportive and collaborative, you know? And you mentioned, you know, Alex, you know, and. Alex Stuack. And even when he was at WD 50, I was, I was blown away by one of his desserts and like, he came over to Corton after I asked him, he is like, oh, it's so low tech.
Like I just did X, Y, and Z. I'm like, well, it was good, you know?
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: And it was impressive. And some of the things are just super simple. You just don't realize until you kind of do it and you put yourself in those shoes. But you know, whether it be, you know, Alex, uh, you know, Stupak or Michael Lascon, or like other chefs like Gavin Cason or Justin Coley, I've had such a great experience with their kindness and generosity and the amount that they're willing to share and just to help others, you know, in the industry [00:15:00] move forward.
Right.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yeah. It makes us all better, man.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, exactly. So, David Kinch super inspiring and like. You know, like we, you know, when he came to New York and I was there, like all of a sudden I'm having a drink with him a late night, and he was just the most passionate person ever. Well, that rubs off on people, right?
Yeah. So I guess that's like the fun enjoyment about camaraderie is I, I want to be that spark to other people, you know? And when we're getting good product, you know, hit the pause button and be like, Hey, you all need to check this out. You know? Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: I think that needs to happen more often. It happened earlier in my career, you know, that chefs would do that, and I, I, you know, it, it's long lasting, right?
So remembering that kind of hitting the pause button every once in a while, it's great.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Do you remember like the first time, well, lemme step back, like, you know, when we're, when, when, when you start to sort of grow into, to, [00:16:00] to higher sort of rank positions in kitchens, right? C, d, c, most of the time you're kind of executing on tusks.
Vision or Laurent's vision. And it's not that it's, you know, rote, but it is sort of like through the lens of them, you know, when you're creating the, whatever, new dishes or specials and things like that. Do you remember like the first time that you created something that was uniquely like, like, this is my dish, this is, this is like uniquely my vision, my like thought process, my approach.
Independent of not, obviously nothing is ever independent of other, other influences, but you know, when you create a dish at Catatonia, right, it has to be in the vein of catatonia. It can't just be some, you know, do you remember the first time you created something that was like, uniquely Sean?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, I mean, that's a tough one.
'cause I've always tried to, I took pride in trying to make desserts or dishes that were cohesive with the restaurant. And there's some restaurants that I definitely, I guess, mesh and gel with a little bit more.
Josh Sharkey: Which ones? [00:17:00]
Shawn Gawle: Uh, well, I mean, and it might be the time period too, right? Where I. Certainly the first time I was creating on my own was when I was at Veritas and that was a learning process.
And Gregory Puja, who was there, gave me a lot of freedom and I kind of mess around and doing good food. But like when I looked back, I'm like, it was something silly. And it was a, it was a growing process, right? But then when I went to Cortan, I think I really gelled with Paul and his food, his style, like it was jiving.
There was a time period at Corton when they had the prey or their, a la car at the entree. You know, you'd get like a small little piece of rabbit, but you'd get four sides to go with it, and you'd get a rabbit sausage and this and that. Well, like, I, I tried to mimic that with some of the desserts where like, I did a dessert and I had like two or three sides and that was kind of challenging, but fun.
And then as my time evolved at Corton, like I, you know, some of the flavors [00:18:00] and the flavor profile and the style, I just, you know, really loved like. Working with black sesame and yuzu and some of these liquid action type things. But then a few years passed and I'm doing extremely simple and one or two or three ingredient desserts that says on that really spoke to me.
Right. And that was extremely challenging. So it, it's tricky to say, um, you know, and as, as you, as time goes on and you grow as a chef too, it's like it changes a little bit.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully you're always sort of at the right place, at the right time, uh, in your, you know, in your career.
Shawn Gawle: I think those two, those two, and they're back to back, but those restaurants were so different too.
Okay. You know, and, and do I use a whole bunch of hydrochloride now? Like there's a couple, but not, not nearly as many. And I've got a bunch of people to ask me about. Using them. And it's like, I like to step away away from it, uh, more. 'cause the more of that you use, the less tasty things are sometimes.
Right.
Josh Sharkey: It's definitely hard to bridge it. Yeah. [00:19:00] It, I mean, it is great that you have the, you know, them in your toolbox because your young cooks that come up, maybe they, you know, maybe they wanna try something out and if it can still fit within the realm of, you know, comradery, but they're like, Hey, I really wanna learn how to use, you know, these sodium core, you know?
Yeah. The things that make the little balls or something like that. You can, you can teach them how. Right. And, and it might be a throwaway. Right. Might be like, you know, this would never stay in the menu, but then they learn and then they can learn from you and kind of, you know, helps them along the way.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: It's so funny. Worked at Veritas, by the way, this, this, the, I remember 2003, Scott Bryant was the chef there. Yep. And I, uh, it's like, it's actually a big part of the story of how me happened because I was, I was working for Floyd at tablet and I would like work for free for Mario making Lummi. And I had, you know, like we have little notebooks and I left my fucking notebook at Veritas with all the, all of the charcuterie recipes.
Like literally like, you know, like a hundred of them, all the detail. And, uh, anytime I think of Veritas, all I think about is [00:20:00] a fucking notebook that I lost there that I never, I never really got those recipes back. Yeah. And there was no recipes for them. They, you just had to sort of like write things down.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. I mean, maybe Scott Bryan's making some recruitery nowadays. Huh. But, uh, I doubt
Josh Sharkey: that
Shawn Gawle: he, he, he had a really good thing going too. And uh, you know, unfortunately I didn't work for him. But yeah, that was a kind of a crazy period and time. But that was the first time that I was given like the real freedom to kind of do what I wanted.
And I don't know if my food really like absolutely replicated Gregory's as much, even though I tried a little bit. But that was, it was, 'cause I was young and I was trying stuff out, but he was so, uh, supportive. Right. Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. So can you walk me through. You know, you were doing savory for, for a while and then I think at at LTO is when you sort of asked Laurent like, Hey, can I, can I, can I try out pastry?
What was, what was happening then? And then what was that tra transition like?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, so I worked with Laurent at Bere Devant. Uh, we [00:21:00] met years before when he was a guest chef at True. And he got brought back to do a tasting at, at True or For Rich Moment at Let Us Entertain You. One of the cooks that I worked with, you know, left True and worked for the fifth floor and I was still at True, one of the very few people that were still there.
Uh, so he kinda remembered me, but when I was at Bistro Devon, he gave me a lot of, you know, pastry jobs to work on. We talked through the recipes. They were, you know, built from percentages and, you know, precise and techniques and stuff. And I had a great deal of respect because he had so much, you know, balance and he knew so much pastry.
Right. Uh, and a couple other chefs, you know, early in my career, you know, had similar. So when we were closing Bicher Devant, I, um, you know, I mentioned, I, I wanted to just get into past right then for like a year or two and then
Josh Sharkey: mm-hmm.
Shawn Gawle: Work for, work for him again.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: I stard at Payard and I was close to accepting a job, but I don't think I could have [00:22:00] afford to live.
I really wanted to work for Michael Oconus and, um,
Josh Sharkey: that, that was the La Bernadette.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. At La Bernadette. And it didn't work out. I think maybe he didn't have room on his team at the time, and I kind of, I kind of nudged Laurent 'cause he knew Michael and, and Eric, uh, repair very well, but like didn't, you know, just didn't work out.
But then at that time, um, the main opening in New York was Joel Robeson. So I went for that and, um, opened Joel Robeson. I did all the meat and fish butchery, but I, um, I kept in touch with Laurent. We would get coffee and talk and he was close to opening up something in New York and it fell through. And then he ended up doing Chicago and L two O.
So. We had, like, through our talks, we decided, or he decided, um, he wasn't going have a pastry chef, you know, that like the sous chefs can manage it and all that. I, I Do you
Josh Sharkey: think that was a, was that, was that a, like a budget decision or just like philosophically he didn't want have one?
Shawn Gawle: Um, [00:23:00] maybe a little bit of both, but also he wanted to get the cooks trained in both too.
So he wanted the cooks to rotate through and make the team strong, uh, that way. Um, and because he wanted to kind of teach them, that was all technique driven and the way his recipes are built, even savory wise, they're very exact and they're very percentage and, and, and methodical that it's kind of an easy transition to do either.
Right. It's just you're just working with some different ingredients.
Josh Sharkey: Yep.
Shawn Gawle: So he knew that I wanted to do pastry, but I didn't get into it, but I didn't know I was gonna do pastry LTO until I moved there. Uh, and met with, met with him and then he was like, oh, so we're not gonna have a pastry chef, so, but you're gonna be in charge of it.
And I was like, oh. So that, that's kind of how it went. Um, we knew I was interested, but I, I really only had the idea to do it for a couple years, like really submerge myself into it and then, uh, get back out. But yeah. But it's, like I've said earlier, it's, it was just extremely hum. Humbling.
Josh Sharkey: Did it feel [00:24:00] like a transition?
Does it feel, it sounds like it just, it, it felt just like, you know, working savory and you just, um, you know, working with different ingredients. I mean, I always think about you go into the pastry station, they yell at you there. Yeah. It's a whole world, you know, typically. Yeah. Um, at least, you know, it can be.
Shawn Gawle: Yep. I mean, I never thought I had the patience for it, you know? Wait, when I was in culinary school, I, there's no way. I just, I didn't have the patience for it. But I think, well, you know, over time, you know, you, you grew to have those patients and, and the way you work, there was definitely a learning curve, especially when it comes to like, multitasking, you know, like.
When you get thrown into being a hundred percent pastry and you're used to multitasking a lot and doing four or five things at once.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: You can't do that in pastry. If you mess up, you lose hours and hours of your day. And the other, the other part too is that like all of a sudden I was managing, you know, six or seven people at a very high level and a very, very, you know, [00:25:00] stressful opening and one, maybe two had pastry experience.
Um, and that wasn't me, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So that, that was also hard, you know, it was helpful to have the one or two that did have pastry experience, but, you know, that was definitely challenging.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. You know, your, your background is in so many, like not only so many different restaurants, but you're also in like a ton of different cities that you've worked in.
Chicago, Philly, New York, San Francisco, Boston, not Houston. What. What are, what are sort of some, some things you've noticed about the difference of whether it's the culture or the, or the actual kitchens from different cities? Is there one that stands out as in any particular way for, for being completely different from other cities, or, or is it feel the same across all the cities?
I mean, I spend all my time in New York, so it's, yeah. I'm so interested to hear like how different it is across all the cities. I think,
Shawn Gawle: you know, Philly, like the Philly, New [00:26:00] York, Boston and uh, and Chicago were kind of similar. It was eyeopening when I went to San Francisco, just the pace was just, just, everyone had a deep breath.
Everyone, like, even though that we were busy, it just seemed like everyone had a, a slower pace. You know, like there was windows, you saw the sunlight. It was like you went outside, you picked herbs. It was just like a whole new world, which was also very attractive to me. After, you know, living and working New York for so long, it was like.
And I have an opportunity to try this out. Like this is pretty rad. You know, like the product's amazing. I say like, natural light is insane, you know, like after working in basements and
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Uh, in New York and all sorts of, all sorts of things. So the culture was definitely different. You know,
Josh Sharkey: natural light's a big, is a big deal.
I remember we got a lot of slack for, at, at Cafe Ray at the Time Warner building. It's like, we actually had the best view in the, in the entire
Shawn Gawle: [00:27:00] Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Restaurant. And the, and the guests were basically looking at the kitchen. We were looking at, you know, at, at Central Park. And it did, like, every day you walk in and you feel like, you know, uh, it's not, it's, it's more than just, you know, work.
You're kind of like looking at this beautiful scenery as you go.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. So, yeah, I think San Francisco is just different than the community, but it was also, you know, very, you know, welcoming. It didn't take long for me to get to know, you know, everyone in that city and everyone just being so passionate and jiving and.
You see everyone at the market and people go outta their way to drive 40 minutes to a better market on Thursdays or Sundays. And it's like, it was awesome. It was like, the best part was that drive, you know, out to Marin, you know, and, uh, yeah, San Rafael and driving back it was like, eh, that made my day.
Josh Sharkey: Was that, is San Francisco to you of all those cities, the, the tightest knit of a, of a restaurant community?
Shawn Gawle: Uh, possibly. Yeah. I mean, like, Chicago also [00:28:00] was pretty tight knit. Like, you, you're there long enough. Like, and, and New York has their, their niches too. It's just, there's so many restaurants. Pockets Yeah.
And pockets, right? But you get to know people pretty quickly, you know, and, you know, some of my, some of my better friends to this day, like, I try explaining to like my wife who's not in the industry, like, you know how I know Carl? And it was like, well, Carl worked with a buddy of mine, Danielle, and we got, you know.
Mad for chicken at two in the morning and then we, we, next thing you know, we're celebrating Thanksgiving together, you know, and it's, and we're friends, you know, 15 years later.
Josh Sharkey: Yep,
Shawn Gawle: yep. I mean, I guess that's, you know, why I wanted to name my first restaurant camaraderie too, you know, it's like these, these are connections you make.
Whether if you're, you're working in the trenches with someone or you know, it's a friend of a friend and you can connect and relate, you know, um, yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. It really is. You know, I think the camaraderie really, really is prevalent [00:29:00] so much more, I think, in restaurants and specifically in kitchens. 'cause we're kind of all going to war together, you know?
Yeah. And I, I don't know, I haven't been in kitchens in a while, so I don't know how much it's changed, but it was, you know, you got 18 hours, days, six days a week, you know, and it's sort of nonstop all the time. It is, it does feel like you're kind of in the trenches with these, with these folks and, and it, it creates this sort of close, you know, this bond that, I don't know where else you, you find other than obviously in similar, you know, like really sort of tense or, you know, tough situations like that.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, there's people I haven't talked to in years, but then when we do, you pick up just where you left off, which is amazing, right? Because you have that history and that bond, so
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: What's interesting is how do you, so camaraderie, how do you, how do you emulate that without those same terrible conditions?
Shawn Gawle: You know what I mean? Exactly. I mean, you, that took a lot of thought. [00:30:00] So, you know, there's little things that we're trying to do and trying to implement, you know, whether it just be a four day work week or trying to, you know, bridge the gap in the pay scale or, or have it be a real. Educational driven, you know, restaurant.
You know, I mean, that's what kind of makes me happy is, is, is educating and teaching people and being a mentor to others or like people who have been a mentor to me. Yeah. So, you know, those, those things, you know, is it all, you know, peaches and cream and, you know, everything's, you know, sunshines and lollipops?
Like, no. But you know, we're working to get there and trying to like, you know, level on reason with people and explain why, why we do certain things and try to build in things for myself and the rest of the management team. Be like, okay, we're gonna take a walk or we're gonna try to work on communicating.
And so that way it isn't like all those other crazy restaurants and old school and you know, [00:31:00] the shit rolls downhill type stuff, you know? Yeah. And try, try to be like, okay, like if they're not succeeding at something, I. I look at my first, my, myself first, right? Did I give them the tools to succeed? Did I explain it properly?
Did I do this? You know, and then it's like, okay, well then I can do better, right? But yeah, I mean hopefully we're, we're trying to take ourselves, put ourselves in their shoes and how can we think about the restaurant? So it's, it can be a sustainable career again, right? So, you know, whether it be health insurance, paid time off, um, 401k, you know, you know, these things.
We've been open for two weeks, so, you know, honestly we don't have our staff on health insurance. It's almost impossible to get them on from day one. You kind of have to open, yeah, have a, have a number, which is, you know, kind of, kind of sucks but weird. We have a broker that's gonna meet with us soon. And, [00:32:00] you know, it's, it's important, you know, but
Josh Sharkey: yeah.
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You gotta start from the beginning with it too. 'cause it's, it's, it's basically impossible to do it once you're like three, four years in to like change and have everybody on healthcare now and, you know, 'cause it's a, it's a different model. It's amazing to see it happening now.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. I mean a 401k, you know, it's like, I only got 401k when I worked at some hotels and, uh, most recently, but the cost for the restaurant, there's actually perks, uh, out there that like covers most of the cost for the first three years.
And there's minimal, like, monthly costs, but it's not, it's not obnoxious. And I think not just offering it, but educate, educating people too that like, Hey, you're in your twenties, put, you know, 10, $20 away or, or whatever it is. It can be a very small percentage, but after some time, like that's, it's gonna, but they don't [00:34:00] realize because they're used to paying, working paycheck to paycheck, you know, but educate them like.
You put away $25 pre-tax, it, it doesn't cost you $25, you know, or, or whatever it may be. So, but I think like there's such a big discrepancy in the education aspect of finances and budgeting, whether it be personal or business related. Um, that it'd be helpful just to be able to like, have a meeting every once in a while, kind of go over things or answer.
It's like people have goals and it's like, okay, well I've got help along my way of, of, you know, people knowing things that I don't, well then how can I, how can I pay it forward to others and tell them like, troubleshoot what went wrong with me? And also like, what maybe they didn't think about X, Y, or Z.
Right? But also just like I said, like, you know, personal budgeting, it's, there's such a discrepancy in, you know, the, the wealth gap where it's like, okay, [00:35:00] people deserve to get paid more, but there's also like. A dollar more an hour only goes a certain amount per week, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, I
Josh Sharkey: mean, even when we were making 10, $15 a, you know, an hour less eight, you know, you still, no matter what, I mean, I wish I had known back then to just put, you know, a tiny, you don't have to put much, put 10 bucks a month, you know, if you start it when you're 20, you know, it add, it adds up and we just, you know, we just didn't know.
Shawn Gawle: Well, and it's, and it's the whole, it's kind of like the cup of coffee motto, right? Where if you go to Starbucks or Dunking Donuts every day, right? You spend three or $4 a day and throughout the course of the month, what is that? Well, if they, you could be saving that a month and you make coffee at home for a fraction of the price, right?
And yeah, maybe treat yourself to that latte once a week or whatever, but like, yeah, that, that's a hundred dollars a month or, or more like, I mean, it's more, I. [00:36:00] Yeah, no, it
Josh Sharkey: adds up. Adds up for sure. Those little,
Shawn Gawle: those little changes that people get used to. It was like that. Not to say that I don't want to pay someone another dollar an hour, but like the, the bigger factor is some of these other habits that they could also do.
And then on my end, I'm trying to do things differently so like I can pay people a little bit more, uh, quality of life.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's talk about the opening for a minute. Well, more than a minute. First of all, what do you think was like the biggest worry you had that turned out to be like a nothing burger?
Shawn Gawle: Oh, I mean, I'm doing a prefe, uh, menu, prefix menu and no one's doing it in Houston right now. And it's not, not the first time anyone's done it, but like no one's doing it in Houston. And I was worried that people were, weren't gonna see the value or that people might see. Yeah, it as expensive, right? Mm-hmm.
That it's $5 per person, you know, you're getting four shared. You know, apps, you pick your entree [00:37:00] and there's choice of dessert. And I was worried that, you know, some people might seem expensive 'cause you used to go into a la carte restaurants, it's either a la carte restaurants and you see the prices, 20, $30, you know, plates, or there's a couple of tasting menu restaurants that are like way, like way more expensive for the whole experience.
But everyone's been overwhelmed with how much they see it as a value, which is great and a big relief. Uh, you know, I kind of wanted to, yeah, that was my passion, is to do this, this style menu and kind of bridge the gap between the fine dining taste menus. I've worked at little more casual, uh, with the space.
I've found it necessary to do a, a small, a la carte menu in the bar lounge and
Josh Sharkey: yeah.
Shawn Gawle: And that, that also gives people more choices. I was worried that they weren't gonna have enough choices, you know?
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: The choice of the entree is only. Three or four. It's, it's, it's literally, it's one meat, one [00:38:00] fish, uh, a vegetarian.
And then I have a large format, which right now is a, a, another fish dish. So it's not a lot of choices, but people seem like they're, they're just enjoying it. Great.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. What, was there anything that went, like a big curve ball that went pretty went wrong, that you didn't expect would go wrong?
Shawn Gawle: Uh, I think there was a lot of little things, right.
That all kind of came together at the end. We had, you know, some issue the first week with our, our makeup air, you know, it was like, and like, you need ac and good temperature and, and restaurants, especially in Houston. And, you know, we get to the bottom of it, like electrician, like, you know, crossed the wires the wrong way or something.
It was going backwards. But, yeah, I mean, but for service wise, I'm not sure like, it, it's been better than I expected,
Josh Sharkey: which is Oh, that's good.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: How do you feel about the team?
Shawn Gawle: I think the team's great. We've got a [00:39:00] mixture of people. We really try to take a lot of time to hire team players, you know. And
Josh Sharkey: how do you, how do you filter for that?
Shawn Gawle: Well, you know, that's the tricky thing is like, I try to add conversations with people like we are now, you know, try to get to the know them, try to get to know what makes them tick. You know, I, I looked for people that were hungry, humble, and smart. You know, ultimately it didn't, doesn't matter what they've done in the past, it's, I kept reminding myself like, what do they want to do in the future?
What do they wanna learn? And there's a, there's a few people that have, uh, some good experience and there's some people that have very little, but, you know, one guy worked at a, a place shucking oysters, and then his next restaurant was mainly making like Po Boys and sandwiches, but he was. He loved making sandwich.
Like he loved it. And I was like, man, I love a good sandwich. You know, [00:40:00] like, it's good. And he was able to do a sandwich special at this, you know, bar restaurant he was working at. And he explained the, the, the special to me
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. In
Shawn Gawle: detail. And I was like, you know what? Like, Hmm,
Josh Sharkey: yeah,
Shawn Gawle: you're all right. You know, like, and he wants to learn.
So it's like, okay, great. Now, unfortunately, it doesn't always work out, you know, and you can't filter it all. Um, but we had multiple conversations with them, but what I was afraid of when I was opening was that as much as I, I care and I put in time to hire these people and I care about them, that, you know, I'm gonna be disappointed, or, and what I mean is like when someone doesn't follow through and meet the values that I thought they were.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Right. And you know, unfortunately that just happened too, where the trust was broken. Disrespect was, or respect wasn't there. And, uh, you know, I had to part [00:41:00] ways with someone already and it's, and it's not something I, I take lightly, you know? Yeah. And it was unfortunate, but it is better to move on and kind of say that like it's not a good fit and that like, you know, that broke my trust and like, I, I need, trust is a foundation, you know?
So, foundation piece. So
Josh Sharkey: is there, like, now thinking back, like in retrospect, was there anything that you can think of as like a pattern that you could now, um, look for or, or, or ask a question about or sort of lead them to, to, to see where someone else might have the propensity to, to break your trust? It sounds like the person probably had a good interview, but, but was there anything that, that you could think of now looking back, that may have caused that?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, I mean, well, so. They maybe had a good interview and then even at the time, sometimes you can kind of see through the person, but unfortunately, we're also have our hands tied where like, we also need to fill the position too. [00:42:00] Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, it would've been nice to, in, in retrospect, maybe I would've just said like, you know what, I'm gonna wait right now and it might be harder at the beginning and, but try to wait for the right person to come, come along.
Right. Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Because
Shawn Gawle: there was still some reservations, right. Um, and you know, in the dining room staff too, like we were like, you know, maybe had some reservations about someone, but was like, well, they deserve a shot. Like, we're gonna be, we're gonna watch out for this and see if we can work with them.
'cause everyone needs, you know, chances. And then when someone doesn't work out and we need to hire again, it's better to wait. Or like, I think we, that's what we learned even, you know, at the beginning it was like. It'd be great to just get a body in, but it's like, be better to have the team work a little bit harder and we wait a week or two until we have the right person come along.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. It's so hard man, because you, you have to communicate that really well to the team and the team has to be, you [00:43:00] know, in it because it's one of these in the restaurants are pretty unique in that you not having that body is really tough. Right. Everybody else is gonna be working a, a lot extra. I mean, if you don't have a marketing person, you no effect, you know, marketers, they're, they're great, but like, you're gonna get by you, you, you can open tomorrow, but if you are meat cook isn't there, then someone else is working extra.
You know, and also service might be slower. Yeah. And then there's sort of, you can have that potential resentment 'cause someone's like, now I'm working more da da. And you know, the team has to really be behind it.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. I think, you know, being open with them and we've tried to do that and explain, I. Like, Hey, it might be tough for a couple weeks, but we'd rather bring on the right person.
'cause when you bring in the wrong person, they can be a complete cancer. And it'd be even worse than that. Just work a little bit harder now. And I, I've learned that people understand that and respect that. Right. It does get tricky when we have such a small restaurant and a small staff [00:44:00] when you, you know, lose someone, it's a, it's a larger percentage of your staff to make up.
Right. So it, it becomes challenging. We have to be, you know, smart about it and divvy up the, the workload a little bit. Yeah. But I think the staff in general understands why, and I think it makes them feel, I, I, I think it makes 'em feel good that they're part of a team too, or like, you know, that like, I care about who I bring on, that I'm not just gonna bring on anyone.
It ultimately makes 'em feel special, which they should, you know?
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yeah. And the flip side is when it's a small team, let's see, a 10 people and. Two of them are, you know, like dragging or like breaking trust. That's 20% of your company. Yeah. You know? Yep. You know, it's, it, it's, uh, so the, so the smaller the team, the more every single person needs to really be driving Yeah.
You know, value.
Shawn Gawle: I mean, the, the idea is that, you know, with the small team, hopefully you can, or, or me and my management can, [00:45:00] can find the ones that don't fit, you know, and you have a team of 30 or 40. It's easy for a couple people to like, kind of hide under the radar and then slowly, you know, like turn others into bad apples and that sort of thing.
Right. But like, if we have a small team, we have a little more one-on-one with everyone as well. Um, and I think that goes a long way too.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. How do you approach collaboration? I mean, you have an enormous amount of experience and skill, I think, rightly so. You're, you're hiring for, you know, curiosity, diligence, you know, people that like really care.
Which oftentimes can mean not a ton of experience in in the kitchen. I imagine still collaboration is important when you're putting out new dishes. How, how do you, how do you approach that now with your restaurant as opposed to what you would do, say, you know, you know, back in the day it's at Quince or another place that you were running?
Shawn Gawle: I think it's just important that they, they see that I am, like, they see that I'm human, that I make mistakes. I'm [00:46:00] honest with them that I, I make mistakes and that's not a direct collaboration with collaboration, but I think showing them that it's like, Hey, when I have you take something, like I want your honest feedback.
I think that's what I'm getting at, right? Because I need that, because I try to taste and I'm always trying to think of what it needs or what it doesn't need to make it better. And I think if they, if my, my cooks see me tasting with, you know, my general manager or my sous chef and getting honest feedback and like make tweaks, I think that goes a long way with.
Allowing collaboration and knowing that it's okay to, to speak freely and to give an opinion when, when it's the right time. Right. And then collaboration will grow from there. And when I ask them like, Hey, what do you think about this? Or, we're getting this product in and I might have an idea in the back, but I want to give them an opportunity.
It resonates a bit more. 'cause they've already seen that there's, there's [00:47:00] a consistency with, with how I work. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's not just about like, this is what we're gonna do and there's no questions and this is it. Right. That like, we taste together, we, you know, there's all those little things add up thing.
Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. You know, it's something I took away from Wiley years ago. He was like, he said something that really stuck with me because I asked him sort of like, how do you, how do you create this sort of environment of creativity? I mean, all of that stuff coming out of WD wasn't just him. You know, like there's a lot of people.
I love what he, his, his, his, like, immediately he said, you know, he said, you gotta create an environment where it's okay to talk shit to the chef. And, and I think that really, you know, just speaks like that freedom, that freedom that like anybody feels like their opinion matters. And sometimes it's harder than just telling people that, you know, especially when you're the, you're the boss, right?
Basically everything stops with you as the chef, um, or you're the CEO, whatever. And yeah. And, and, um, I find often just inadvertently [00:48:00] people feel like when you say something, that's it, that's the, you know, that's the gospel and that's what goes, and you have to sort almost like, proactively tell 'em like, Hey, you know, this is what I think.
What do you think? You know?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: What, what do you think?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. I mean, and sometimes I don't tell them what I think and I want like, and maybe that helps too, is like, okay, no, but really think on your own. What, what does this do for you? Like, you know, does this dish make you happy? You know, does this flavor make you happy?
Or like, how can we make it better? You know, there's no perfect, but can we get close? And we can get exceptional, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, absolutely. You have to create that environment from the beginning. Let them know it's okay.
Josh Sharkey: What do you do when, when you don't like, so you, someone's putting something up and you're not gonna tell them what you think, but then you're like, I can't, I can't serve this.
Yeah. What, what do you, what do you do?
Shawn Gawle: Uh, I mean, that's hard sometimes, you know? So, you know, if it's, if it's kind of a complete dish, you know, kind of going backwards and be like, okay, well what was [00:49:00] your thought process on it? You know? And let's think about like, what, what are the goals of the dish, right?
Um, one, sometimes I'm just very honest and be like, yes, this is cool. This doesn't match the restaurant where we're at. Whether it be comradery or a previous restaurant, right? But let's keep thinking about this. Maybe we can use some components, but sometimes, like, when it's really bad, you know, I kind of talk about like what, what they're thinking, what they wanna start with, you know, what they goal, and kind of like break it down.
And kind of strip it away a little bit and then try to build it back up and you know, like there, hopefully there's some type of positive you can take from each, uh, or, or something. Right. So you can kind of like not totally crush their souls.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. You
Shawn Gawle: know, I have to be
Josh Sharkey: better then. Yeah,
Shawn Gawle: right. It's hard.
Josh Sharkey: It's hard.
Shawn Gawle: Well, I mean, I've definitely crushed some souls in my, my time and I it's not great. And you kind of see that in, in them and it's like, okay, well how can I do this a little softer? Right?
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Um, and it's more of a reflection of us. [00:50:00] I, like, I, I beat myself up over 'cause I, I have a hard time with that and like, I mean, something's presented and I'm not, obviously at this point I'm not talking about food 'cause I have another company.
But like,
Shawn Gawle: yeah.
Josh Sharkey: My immediate reaction is to talk about what isn't right about it. Yeah. And you know that it takes a lot more effort to, to find out what, what is right about it. Or just asking like, Hey, what were you thinking when you were working on this without coming across like a dick.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. Oh, I know.
Well that's. Trust me, I still have that issue and problem that I'm working through is like, I can't control my face sometimes. Yeah, me too. And then, and then also, you know, I'm very blunt and very honest and very straightforward. And that can resonate with some people and some others can be quite taken aback.
So, you know, learning who you can do that with and who needs to be talked to a little bit softer and, and kind of break down, you know, what they're thinking. And then, you know, learning too in the future when you give people an opportunity to put up a dish, try to give them some type of guideline too [00:51:00] without, you know, handcuffing them a, a bit.
Right. Because that's, that's sometimes hard too. Um, talking through what, what their idea is before they put it down on a plate to make sure that they're a little bit more on track helps. Right.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. What are you most excited about? Right on the menu,
Shawn Gawle: changing it, uh. Yeah, I've been open for two weeks, but I mean, we're starting to get spring product and so it's like, it's, it's tricky where it's like we need to keep the menu the same a little bit.
'cause you know, people are excited about certain things. Uh, we have a salt big, so dish that's getting like, raved about, or like couple of the pasta dishes, the ravioli dine people are freaking over. But like, I really wanna build the environment and the culture that like we're, we're changing a little bit here and there.
Uh, and then that way also, like the cooks don't end up feeling like they're just a short order cook. That the menu is the same for months and they're only doing the same thing. Right. I wanna be able to get in, you know, [00:52:00] rhubarb green garlic, or last week we got in ramps, you know, and, and get people excited about the food.
But also just like, okay, well we have this now, it's great. Yeah, we're gonna have ramps for. Three or four weeks, we should use them. You know? Are
Josh Sharkey: there ramps in hu in Houston?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, I got 'em Saturday. So I mean, they're not from Houston. Like, uh, I'm pretty sure they're probably from California or Oregon. I was told that the ones I got California, but
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Um, but we just got ramps in, you know, there's green garlic, you know, it's like, okay, I'm doing this bread that people love. That's great. But I want people, I want to have people trust me that they, they'll come back and I won't have the purple sweet potato pant, but the next bread is gonna be just as delicious and exciting.
Right. Like maybe I'll have a green garlic knot, like a garlic knot, but with green garlic or something.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Right. Yeah. You know, small little changes, um, excite me. Uh,
Josh Sharkey: that just takes time. Right? Yeah. Just like people seeing it over time.
Shawn Gawle: [00:53:00] Well, and it's, it's been a push to like keep up with the menu, like the menu and have team, you know, and how busy we are, which is great.
And it's a great problem to have. But now I'm kind of excited to like, take a step back and start thinking about like, okay, what fish, what produce is coming in? What changes can we make for the week? And try to instill that. 'cause some restaurants, once they get going, it's, it becomes really hard to change any menu item.
Right? It becomes, it is just, it is just challenging or there's too many systems in place and there's, the staff gets overwhelmed with changing because it's just not instilled in the, in the culture of the environment. So I wanna try to get, get on that right away. So it's not a big deal. It's like, okay, you're gonna come in and like, we're gonna change this now and we're gonna talk through it and do it and we'll have this for a week or two.
Right? So I think that's, you know, exciting to me. So hopefully we can start doing.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. You know, I find, I find [00:54:00] also like, it, it's easy to, to get stuck in sort of two formulaic of, of a menu change too. Because like you got the, you know, whatever the, the salt crusted or the, or the tapio yogurt crusted sea bass and there's a pepper rod with it and this j and then the next iteration is they just swap the fish.
Yeah. Maybe swap tapioca for a different grain and they like swap the piro for something similar. And it's basically the same rinse and repeat. But you know, it's hard to break out of that, of that mold once you get going.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, you know, and yeah, I've been places that, that do that and it's like, no, I want to try to swap off whole dish.
Right. And maybe simplify that process and the things that work in the prefe that like people love. Hopefully we can just put in the bar lounge menu and keep it around. Yeah. So that's the idea. Like I'm, I'm excited about some of the stuff that we have in the bar lounge menu, like the tart flambe is coming out really nice, very like traditional, very thin.
Very, like, elegant and uh, like I'd like to keep that around, but at [00:55:00] the same time, I don't wanna be beholden to always having a tar flambe or like, yeah. You know, previously I did a FTO reco because I loved Nancy Silverton's so much at KI spca. So I tried to make, you know, that, and it was a hit, was the top P mix at the restaurant I was at previously.
And it's still on the menu to this day, you know, which is great. But like, I'd love to be able to like, take it off, but then have it around if someone says like, oh, you don't have this, and then you can send it out to them as like a nice surprise. Right.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. That's nice. So what are Ramps cost around you these days in Houston?
Uh,
Shawn Gawle: about $30 a pound. Maybe a little more.
Josh Sharkey: Dude, I, I, so I, I moved to Westchester, um, a while actually now it's like almost eight years ago. And, um. They're everywhere. Yeah. And you know, we have, you know, there, we have some in our backyard. I mean, we have morels in our front yard. And then, you know, uh, a buddy of mine lives a couple blocks down the road.
He's, he doesn't know Ramps are, yeah. And he's, he, he must [00:56:00] have a hundred pounds of ramps on his property and they're literally just like everywhere. And I'm like, what if this has to be a business model? You, everybody, everybody's got this. And they just unfortunately all just sort of wilt and die, like nobody's even using 'em.
Shawn Gawle: Alright, well I'll give you my address.
Josh Sharkey: Um, I do send them to people or I, like, I'll actually ship some to a buddy of mine in, down in Charleston. Yeah. You know, uh, and then I'll just make some, like whatever, ramp up or something and send them. But yeah, you know, I don't have time. But like, someone, someone needs to do something about that.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, they're pricey, but man, they're worth it. And I'm just trying to feature the whole product and, uh, hopefully people enjoy 'em.
Josh Sharkey: You pickle the, the bulbs or do you you braise 'em?
Shawn Gawle: I will if I need to. I'm trying to just do a dish where it's, it's literally just braise ramps and some cheesy plant or cheesy grit.
Yeah. You know, braise
Josh Sharkey: ramps are so good,
Shawn Gawle: you know, then if I need to, I'll use 'em whichever way, but some people get 'em in right away and just start pickling. But I, I'd like to just try to get, get through what I have. Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: I have nightmares of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds of pickled ramps with, with Kuntz.[00:57:00]
Um, you know, and then you just have all these greens that you're like, what? How many? Yeah. You know, how much puree can you make with, uh, you know, with all the greens? Yeah. You know, or, or what? I think we made pasta a couple times with the too. Anyways. Well, I'm excited to see, uh, how the restaurant, you know, evolves.
I'm actually gonna be in Houston a couple times. Uh, we're, we're doing, uh, um, we're gonna do like a little like event with, um, some of our customers in some new other restaurants in Houston, so I'm definitely gonna come down. Awesome. For that. And we have like another like conference, so I'll be down there a couple times.
So I'm start to come, come check it out. I've been doing this thing actually just, it happened organically. 'cause uh, a couple, a couple shows ago, Dan Kluger started telling me about cookbooks that he loved. So I'm just gonna ask, what are your top five cookbooks?
Shawn Gawle: Well, I mean, you mentioned EY Coons. I mean the Elements of Taste is like up there.
It's like, really? Yeah, it's a classic. Jeff Koons is amazing and put me on the spot, like looking around. Um, you [00:58:00] know, flower and Water book is great. Uh, the tar book is awesome. Classic Jeanie Paladin or the Whitey book by Mark P. White. Oh,
Josh Sharkey: what? He's great. Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Inspiring. But yeah, Koon's book was, was great.
Uh,
Josh Sharkey: you like the Trotter books?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. Yeah, I have, I have a couple of the Trotter books. Great.
Josh Sharkey: What about pastry wise? I haven't bought a lot of pastry books. I mean, there some bread books, but like,
Shawn Gawle: yeah. Uh, yeah, I have some bread books. One pastry book that I really liked was, uh, chocolate.
Josh Sharkey: Oh, that's a great one.
From which one?
Shawn Gawle: The one from Ramon and Mardo. Mm-hmm. Um, kind of explains why you add certain ingredients, which was great. Percentages kind of like gets you thinking about, you know, the sugar levels or whatever. May Yeah. And why, why, why you add things, which I, yeah. A lot of the book was about chocolate, but then there's a whole section, there's just about kind of ingredients, which was awesome.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Really educational. So I think that would be my top, uh, pastry. Um,
Josh Sharkey: that's cool. What about, what [00:59:00] about, um, top five pastry chefs of all time? I just thought about that.
Shawn Gawle: I mean, from my taste, Michael Oconus, Alex Stupak, I. Jordan Kahan, even though he is not pastry anymore. Mm-hmm. His pastries were amazing at Red Medicine.
Man, those, those three come to mind right away. I'm longtime friends with Stephanie Prita. I think she's amazing. Uh, very talented, those things that I can't do. So I think she'd definitely be up there too.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Shawn Gawle: Um, you know, and then there's others that you look up to at your MLA, like of course, like Albert Audria and others.
Uh, Janice Wong from 2:00 AM Desserts. Amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, I think I got five in there.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah, that's enough. There you go. All right. Well, congrats again, man. On the restaurant. And, uh, I'm excited that, um, it's, is it, what days a week is it open?
Shawn Gawle: Uh, Wednesday to Sunday.
Josh Sharkey: Oh, nice.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah. So close to Tuesday.
We have plans on doing brunch. Have to think about [01:00:00] logistics for that. So maybe in a month or two.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Take your time on that one, man.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, I know. I don't, yeah, I mean, I wish I had had Sundays off, but I mean. The neighborhood we're in. Definitely, I think it will be good for brunch and for Sundays too, and mm-hmm.
You know, in some industry have Sundays off, so I think it, it would be a good thing. But
Josh Sharkey: yeah. When you have, you got, you got a two month old, so, uh, you know, you gotta find some, some time. What is it, a boy or girl?
Shawn Gawle: A girl, yeah. So right now Mondays and my wife's bringing her by the restaurant every day, which is really nice.
Josh Sharkey: Nice. Yeah. Is she, uh, staying with the baby at, at the moment?
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, she's on maternity leave, so she'll go back to work soon, but, um, yeah, at, at the time she was staying with the baby maternity leave, but yeah, right around family meal time, they make a little parents for 20, 30 minutes, so That's great. Try to take a little walks here.
It's really nice.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yep. You the, the first five years man, it's, uh, it goes by fast and it's like the, the, the most precious and [01:01:00] important time. Yeah. This was great, man. I appreciate it and uh, I know you, I know you're busy, but, uh, I'm glad we got some chance, chance to chat.
Shawn Gawle: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks.
Josh Sharkey: Yep. Thanks for tuning into The meez Podcast. The music from the show is a remix of the Song Art Mirror by an old friend, hip hop artist, fresh Daily. For show notes and more, visit get me.com/podcast. That's GETMEEZ.com/podcast. If you enjoyed the show, I'd love it if you can share it with fellow entrepreneurs and culinary pros and give us a five star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Keep innovating, don't settle. Make today a little bit better than yesterday. And remember, it's impossible for us to learn what we think we already know. See you next [01:02:00] time.
