Josh: And, uh, we, we, like I said, we had dinner with her last night, which was insane. Really, really good. The, a couple, at least one person I was with had already been here before, so she gave the same advice that you had, which was Negroni and the shrimp and the, uh, squash blossoms, which were really fucking good.
But we didn't get the pizza Bianco. So we dipped the, the, the, the shrimp sauce and a couple other things, but it was really good.
Giancarlo: Oh, you got the hits.
Josh: It was, I mean, we ate, we ate a lot of food. Uh, service was insane. It's like so good. Like everything was just, you know, I was really impressed.
Giancarlo: Thank you.
Josh: But, you know, and, and by the way, we'll, we'll sort of tee you up in a minute, and, but I just wanted to, you know, we, we were just talking about getting into the space and the minute that I walked in, I was like.
This feels like, um, first of all, gorgeous space and I wanna talk about [00:02:00] design with you. 'cause you know, I don't understand why you so deeply sort of got into the design of the restaurants and why that's so important. But it's very clear that that's a big part of what you do. But man, it like, I, I, I felt Keith McNally right away walking in, but more and, and different and, and, uh, you, you were just sharing like the, the, the history of the space.
I'd love maybe to share that again because I thought that was pretty interesting that. The background behind it. 'cause it was, you know, how you got into the space and what it, what was originally was.
Giancarlo: Yeah. So a, a guy named Richard Haman is the original developer of all the projects that we have in Hollywood.
And, um, you know, this, this building was acquired back in 2018 and being that it was, you know. High ceilings, large space. It had the structural columns throughout the restaurant. Um, it, it, it definitely felt like a big box, kind of brassy restaurant that you'd see in New York City. One, like, uh, about Cesar and, um, before this was Mother Wolf, um, there was [00:03:00] discussions about this potentially being a alazar at, at one point, um, that never panned out.
And, and, but. But the idea of bazar is that it's a big restaurant, it's a high ceilings, it's got that big brassy feel that you've, uh, big brassy restaurant feel that you see in New York and in in London. And we were trying to bring that essentially to a, to la and in, in absence of doing baltar or or something similar to that, we went with the Italian version of it.
Josh: Yeah. Alright, so, so I'll wind everybody up. So your background is, I mean, you have, you have hospitality in your DNA, your dad, uh, was very famous, maitre d. At the Beverly Hills Wilshire, and I mean, you worked for some of the best, Sam Azarian. Michael Mina, Jose Andres. Now you have, you know, mother Wolf among other things.
But, you know, we were chatting before this, and I still like, I, I know the projects, some of the projects that you have, but I would love to hear like, in, in your words, what it is that you do. Like, what's your, like what's your approach, um, how you, how you think [00:04:00] about, you know, building and developing and, and then like what are the projects that you have right now?
Giancarlo: Sure. So I, I, I see myself entrepreneurial and in this industry and where I think some people in my position tend to have, you know, like one group that they. They're partner in or that they own and that they, they push that brand. I, I always like to, to work with different groups and partner with different people.
You know, for example, you know, I'm the managing partner of Mother Wolf. You know, we have Mother Wolf in Bar Voya here in la. You know, we had the license deals in Vegas, in Miami, but I'm also JV partners with Sam Dian on a brand called MXO and a brand called Heche Libre. I just really personally like to work with different people in different groups.
And so I'm, I'm an entrepreneur. I mean, essentially. And, and, and then, you know, in addition to that, I licensed brands. We bringing MA 32 from Hong Kong, Ms. Na from Tel Aviv. Malcolm from Tel Aviv. And I just, I [00:05:00] really enjoy working with. Just different people in the industry and trying to make projects happen in la I think more than me being managing partner of Mother Wolf Group or, uh, you know, founder of Paani Projects, I'm just a guy who's investing in LA and trying to make this city, you know, even better and bring great products to the city.
And, and, and that's I guess what, what, what I'm focused on. But I look at people in other industries, like, you know, not to be like cliche, but like look at a guy like Virgil Ablo, right? He had his clothing brand offwhite. Then he was the creative director at Louis Vuitton and he had like a hundred other projects that he, that he worked on.
And when you listen to him talk about what he does, there's, there's like creatively, it's super interesting to be involved with multiple projects at one time. And I just think it helped me be more creative. Be more driven to do what I'm doing because every single day I'm having 10 to 12 con [00:06:00] different conversations about different products that I'm working on, and it's extremely fulfilling.
Josh: Yeah. I mean, my background is as a chef, and I think a lot of times you, you know, when we think about restaurants, especially as a chef or, or even just as a, you know, as a, as a, as a hospitality person, you know, we are thinking about, okay, what's my food? And I'm gonna create a, I'm gonna create a concept around that.
What can end up happening, not that it always does, is that you have somewhat of a, of a narrow sort of view of like what the, of what the concept or business is. Because you're looking at it, you know, specifically from the product and it seems like you, like you almost have this studio model where you're like zooming out, like, okay, how can I curate this entire experience?
Food. Okay. That's one part. I gotta find a really incredible person, you know, or, or, or group to like partner with to create incredible food. Obviously that's table stakes service. Gotta make sure you have that. But then, you know, you have this sort of approach to creating transformative experiences, obviously, like creating these feelings and design.
You know, it definitely feels like [00:07:00] that zooming out that you do helps you to, to build a concept that is really holistic. And I don't know if many people actually take that approach. I mean, there are some, obviously I think of that, that come to mind, but I'd love to hear like how did you, how did you sort of transition from, or maybe you didn't transition, it just, this is just what it's always been of, like, how did you like land on I'm going to curate these experiences and partner with people as opposed to I'm just gonna build a, you know, build a concept and from the ground up, from zero to one myself.
Giancarlo: When you start becoming entrepreneurial. You start to develop ideas. And I think for me, in the restaurant space, I started developing several ideas and just through that process, you start to meet like-minded individuals and then you start connecting the dots and all of a sudden you're, you're working on a project with one chef and you meet a developer on this side that wants something different.
And I think through the process, it wasn't my intention to be this way, it's just through the process I started getting more opportunities. And [00:08:00] then when you have one. Uh, when you have one solid success, then 10 more opportunities come to light. And I think a lot of restaurateurs and hospitality companies.
Try to create too many brands on their own. So if you've got a great Italian restaurant, you're like, oh, there's Anita for a Chinese restaurant in the market. Well, let's find a chef and create a Chinese brand. I don't look at it that way. It's like a musician, like you can't have a platinum, uh, you know, platinum award-winning album every single time, right?
So instead of me going and saying, oh, I'll go find a Chinese chef and try to create a Chinese concept, I look at who's the best group that's doing it currently, and let's see if we can partner with them. At the end of the day, you know, the economics, when you have a chef partner or when you have investors, it's very similar to just going and licensing a brand.
You know, it's a, there's, there's variances to that, but it's, it's actually pretty similar. And so for us to go and find, uh, a brand with multi-units that wants to have a presence in Los [00:09:00] Angeles, but doesn't wanna set up shop here, because California is historically pretty difficult. Um, that's, that's been the model.
And so we've done that now with Moth 32, uh, with Nan from Tel Aviv. And, and the next one's gonna be Malka. But I, I like that model. 'cause then now all of a sudden, instead of me just finding a chef and creating a brand and that living within our ecosystem, now all of a sudden we're partners with another great hospitality company who's got their own platform of projects happening.
And so now the network just keeps expanding and the conversations are bigger. And now you're starting to get connections in other markets. And it's just more exciting.
Josh: I, I, I really do love it. I love this like approach. Yeah. It becomes way more collaborative and you have so many more vested. People with vested interest that have to also think that same way about, about the business.
I, I really love it, man. How do you, how do you think about, like, do you have any sort of rubric around deciding, okay, when you're gonna license a brand versus a jv, a joint venture versus, it sounds like you maybe never incubate [00:10:00] something internally, but like, how do you think about when, when, when you do one versus the other?
Giancarlo: I think it depends on the, the need in the market and the chef. If there's a chef that that has a reputation, some restaurateurs, I think, like, to find a chef, hire them and develop them, I think that's very difficult in la especially right now. Um, so you, you know, I look for chefs that already have a reputation.
Um, obviously Evan, you know, we found Evan, this was his second restaurant, but he always already had a massive following in Los Angeles and he was a huge success. But guys like Wes Avila, chef Wes Avila is my, my, for my Mexican concept with Sam Azarian, he's our culinary partner. That's somebody that already had some level of success, especially in LA with Gorilla Tacos that, you know, I approached him and said like, what's next for you?
And then, you know, developed that relationship and then started to find deals for him. But it's not necessarily my intent out the gate to say, we're gonna develop a brand or license a brand. I think the conversation starts with if there's a need for something in [00:11:00] the market. If we were to develop it, who would we call?
If we were to license a brand, who would we call? And then just start having conversations and see what kind of is exciting. Um, I think at the end of the day, partnering with another company and licensing their brand has so many benefits to it. One, you're getting a ton of marketing support, you're getting operational support, and it makes the process a bit simpler, especially when it's tried and true concept.
I think to start, you have an idea. This could work. And then let's start seeing, you know, how to put this together. Who, who we call. It's like, I guess like producing a movie, you know?
Josh: Yeah, no, it really is. It's almost like a studio model that you're doing. Yeah. By the way, how did you, how did you meet Evan Funky?
Giancarlo: Um,
Josh: or, or maybe better yet, why, like, what happened? What was the impetus for partnering with him?
Giancarlo: This goes back to, uh, the guy I would mention Richard Haman, who was kind of the visionary of this development in, in Hollywood. It's actually a, there's a unique story there, but him and his partner Grant essentially.[00:12:00]
10, 15 years ago had this vision for, um, really making Hollywood a destination where Hollywood hasn't really been a destination for people who live in the city for probably 20, 30 years. And so they, they, they raised something like $300 million and developed a dream hotel. They brought Tao Group, uh, from here and, and then developed a campus.
Across the street, which is the Thompson Hotel, Tommy Hotel and, and Citizen News. And, and along that process is where we all partnered together. When we were looking at the restaurant, which is now Mother Wolf, um, orig, we were having conversations with some brands from, uh, New York. Um, at one point there was conversations with Keith McNally, um, that never really panned out, but that was probably a dream to have him come to la.
How serious he was. You know, we, we don't know, but it was a great dream. But we just loved the idea of doing this big box kind of brassy style restaurant. Um, and so when we started looking at chefs, I mean, it's a very short list of chefs that could [00:13:00] bring density to Hollywood that had a big enough reputation to fill a restaurant that was over 200 seeds.
Um, and top of the list was, was always Evan funky because, you know, he had such great success at Felix and everybody's asking, what are you gonna do next? And so we just, I think it was good timing for us. COVID happened. He had actually turned out there. He, Evan at one point had announced he was doing his next project in Beverly Hills, and it, I, I think it fell off and not sure what, not sure what happened there, but then, you know, we just started going to the restaurant, having dinner and eventually met the guy.
There was some connections with, uh, his family. Um, and we just started the courting process, which took about a, you know, I'd say a year.
Josh: So what's that relationship like with, with a chef? Like, like Evan, how much is it, Hey, just go do you versus like, Hey, here's the vision. Can we stay? What's in these parameters versus like, like, what, what is that?
Like that, that, that collaboration.
Giancarlo: Evan Funky is a very unique chef in the sense that he is a restaurateur. [00:14:00] Can look at a project from all the angles. Obviously he's an incredible chef and he's gonna deliver on the food, but it's more than that. He looks at service, he looks at design. He's a, he's one of the few like restaurateur chefs who can, who can kind of do and understand it all, and he's got a very clear vision of what he wants to do.
And so, sure, from one perspective, we brought the idea of the brassy, right? We hired Martin Prezinski from, from London to, to design the project, which he's gonna come with a lot of his own ideas, but in principle, it was doing a brasserie with, uh, with Italian food. And so just with that as the start, Evan was able to run with that in a major way.
But you know, Evan, you know, Evan should, Kevin gets the most credit because he, he's, he has such strong ideas.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And again, this is also, this is just, I keep going back to why I love this, this model that you have for growing the business is just finding like really great people. Really facilitating, you know, this thing.
And it's, it's, it's so smart, man. I don't remember where, where [00:15:00] you talked about this, but, but you were talking about the idea of, uh, creating an institution like Evergreen brands, right. Things that just last forever. I, I think pretty often it's, you know, there's a, there's an approach where you just try to figure out like, how can I, how can I get a, a lot of eyeballs upfront, just whether it's a trend or something when you start a restaurant and that fades.
We all know that like fades over time. The things that last are the things that are. You know that, that create a connection, a feeling, and, and have that institutional feeling like, like bazar is a great example. Yeah. Right? Like there's a reason why that lasted forever. There's a feeling that you get when you're there, and that's rare, right?
It's hard to, it's hard to do. And I think you're doing it now. I imagined that there must be some heuristics you think about of like, from day one, what do I need to do to make sure this is an evergreen, you know, concept. So I'd love to hear like how you think about that.
Giancarlo: Well, I mean, everybody wants their restaurant to be an institution, and I think, I think it, to start, you just have to build.
The best restaurant that you can build. [00:16:00] And I think, um, when, when we look at restaurants before and, and, and, and currently is, they've gotta feel transportive. You know, we invest heavily in the design of all the restaurants that we're involved in. Um, and when people come in, there's gotta be a wow factor that, you know, for, for Mother Wolf has the reference.
Nobody was building. 12,000 square foot restaurants with 250 seats that, you know, had this Italian glamor. I, it was, it was, it was, it was special. And it was, it was different. And you see this in New York, you see this in in Europe and, and in Dubai and areas like that, but no one was doing it in la. And so I think when you walk in, it has to be impressive.
You have to feel like, wow, this place, I didn't know this existed. Or this is, you know, this is incredible. What, you know, that that's the starting point. And you have to have incredible food and you have to have consistency. At the end of the day, you have to have very warm and attentive service. I think restaurants get away having like one or two components of that, but the institutions are the ones that have.
All those [00:17:00] elements and they're consistent. And that's built on, um, that's built on like incredible, incredibly consistent standards of service and holding people accountable and bringing good energy and, and developing a great culture where people have fun at work and want to be there and, and creating the environment, but you have to do all of it.
That's the hard part of the business. Is that you have to do all of it every single day. And I, I like entertainment references because I, I, I love entertainment, but you know, it's like putting a show on Broadway, which you hear all the time. When you open for service, you're, the show's on you have to be on point and the team's gotta be on point.
And so I think where some restaurants, you know, don't succeed is. They don't accept the responsibility of opening every single night and putting the show on, and it's relentless. You have to be relentless.
Josh: Yeah. You can't let any of those things, any of those things slip. And it's, and it is, it is a lot like a Broadway show, a restaurant, because literally every day, no matter what, it opens and people are coming in and
Giancarlo: people are critical.
Josh: Yeah. And, and they're critical from day one, you know? But I think one thing that I, [00:18:00] when I think about an institution and maybe from the vantage of when you create a restaurant that right away can feel that way. Is when you create something that even if it's a month old, it feels like it's been there forever.
You know, I got that feeling when I came in here. I do think a lot of it likely is design too. 'cause good design is hard, right? Or, or great design is hard. Good design is pretty good. Is is is pretty doable. But great design where like all the little details that you maybe don't even notice but are there that subconsciously create this entire experience is really, really hard.
And. It seems like that somehow is a through line for you design. I don't see any background from you in design, but like, it seems like, you know, I'm sitting, we're sitting in this fucking gorgeous space, um, that clearly, you know, uh, was very thought through and it's, you could create this same, so we're sitting in this sort back, back bar room, which feels very speakeasy esque, but still sort of, you know, democratic.
And there's a lot of things here like the, you know, like the bottles and the, and the, you know, the private cases [00:19:00] and the ladders and things that. Could very easily become like a novelty in a place. But if it's done right, it just feels like it's been here forever and it's gorgeous. And you, and you right away feel like you're in this, um, you know, in this, in this new world.
And you feel like that, so you feel like more special. Right. That is really hard to accomplish in design. And again, I don't know you very well, but I can just see in the restaurants and just from your, from your work, that design seems to be really important to you. Like where did that come from?
Giancarlo: Well, you said, you know, from the design perspective, this restaurant feels like it's been here for a long time, and I think when you're designing restaurants, I think you, you want it to feel like it's been there for a long, you don't, you don't want it to necessarily feel new and shiny.
I think there's, I think restaurants need to feel warm. I think having a lot of like layers of, of wood and warm colors. Makes it feel like a place that's been here for a long time, because 75 years ago they weren't designing restaurants like nightclubs [00:20:00] that are dark, you know? So there's, you know, that idea of it being lived in and, and been here for a while comes from that.
And I think, I think the warmth of the restaurant's really important. I think that. From a lighting perspective. You had dinner at Mother Wolf last night. It wasn't dark in Mother Wolf. It was bright. There's energy that's created from it being warm and bright. When it's too dark, you, I think you lose that.
Um, and so I think I, you know, I think it's like hard to pinpoint the exact, the exact reason why something becomes an institution. Institution or how you designed it. But I think most importantly it's like, it's felt that it's been there for a while.
Josh: Yeah. I mean, are there, are there brands. Both in the restaurant space and not in the restaurant space, whether they're inspirational to you or things that you look to for, for inspiration when you're thinking about creating a brand or space.
Giancarlo: I don't know if there's necessarily a brand. I get inspired from people who are doing a lot of, doing a lot of different things. Kind of has their, you know, are, are trying to pursue, pursue multiple avenues at [00:21:00] once. Um, and like the reference to Virgil AB is a good one of that because I, I've, I've just found it very inspiring that he was, he didn't accept that you had to do one thing.
In my career, especially in hospitality, I was always told that you need to focus on, if you're gonna be a restaurateur, you need to either be a service expert or a chef, or you need to be a wine expert, or you need to be a cocktail expert. I'm like, I don't know if I need to do any of those things. I just need to understand how those things work and then find great people.
And so I didn't like the idea of being pigeonholed to doing one thing, so then I was always inspired by people who didn't accept that and said, no, I'm gonna have multiple disciplines and I'm gonna just, I'm gonna just do my best and, and try to be successful at all these things. And. I think it works for some people.
Maybe it doesn't work for other, but, uh, it's exciting.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: You know, we'll, we'll see if it's, we'll see if it works out for me in 10 years if we're having this conversation again.
Josh: No, I mean, it really is like, it also, it takes like, there's a bit of risk, not, not risk so much, but you have to have a level of confidence because you do get that, like, you'll always [00:22:00] have those haters be like, eh, you don't, but you don't know about food.
You don't know. You're not a wine expert. You're not this, we were just talking about Rick Rubin last night. That's a perfect example. He doesn't know anything about music. He, he'd be the first one to tell you. I don't, I don't, I dunno how to write music. I'm not technical.
Giancarlo: Yeah.
Josh: But he understands what good looks like.
Giancarlo: Yeah.
Josh: And um, you know, I have to imagine that might be some, some sort of inspiration for you as well, just thinking about like, okay, what does, what does good look like and how do I get the right people to be their best in the thing in one place? So other, other, other people at that, that inspire you?
Giancarlo: Probably one of my longest mentors and is a really dear friend of mine is Sam Azarian. He does a lot. He's in the restaurant business. He's in the nightclub business. He's in the hotel business and he's, he, I learned, I think I learned that. From a tactical perspective, a lot from, from being with him because I'll go sit in his office in Miami now in Miami.
Um, and the conversations that we will have throughout a day. It covers like so many different verticals in our industry, and he's somebody who's able to just kind of bounce between it, kind of move through those [00:23:00] different conversations and those different projects that are happening. And so I learned a lot of that, I think from just being around him because he's another person that, you know, is not confined to doing one thing.
Josh: What's he like to work with?
Giancarlo: Sam's probably one of the smartest people I've ever met. And he's got incredible confidence in what, in what he's doing. And he's, he just, he's a pusher, you know? And I, there's a tremendous amount of respect for Sam because he, you know, it's funny 'cause you think, you look at a guy like him who grew up with a very wealthy family.
Probably could have just sat around and did nothing with his life, but instead he's at the office even said, Hey, he's 50 years old at 6:00 AM every single day works till 7:00 PM and, and just grinds. And he's in his office and he's hustling and he's creating new projects and he's. He's, and he's pushing his team and he's just on it nonstop, and I've never met anybody that execute at that level.
[00:24:00] He's a beast.
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What are, what are the other things that you do today that you picked up from him?
Giancarlo: A, I mean, a lot. Uh, I mean a lot. I just, one of the things I learned from him and from people that have worked with him is just doing things now and addressing, addressing things right now and getting him outta the way.
That way you can move on with your day. If there's an issue, just address it. Don't kick things down the field. In my day to day, I deal with a lot of. Not problems, but just things come up and I just try to, to approach a attack 'em, get 'em outta the way and move on to the next thing. That way my day's freed up and I can just keep going.
I think in our business sometimes you get so bogged down by how many things or how many moving parts there is throughout the day. So I feel like if you are not tackling each one as it comes. Then you're, you're always gonna be fighting an uphill battle. I don't ever feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle as many projects that I have going on.
I [00:26:00] just deal with things in the moment, move on and keep it going all day long. And I never feel backed up. I always feel like I'm like, oh, all right. I got some free time. Now.
Josh: Do you have, do you, you have a test? Like how do you manage all your like things to do?
Giancarlo: I'm old school, I write things down on paper, kind of like I think you do.
Josh: Yep.
Giancarlo: Um, I've tried apps. But then I spend too much time on my phone if I'm looking at lists, you know, and, and so I just like to write things down that are, write things down that are important for me to get done for the day. And then I look at like, some things that I need to tackle for the week, and then the rest of it just comes in, comes as it comes.
Josh: So, do you ever, I mean, how do you think about like, prioritizing, you know, like, you know, one, one of the thing that I'm sure we have the same c. There's a million things that come our way. Every, you know, every like team has something that they need to solve. Every new, new contracts you gotta think through, like, how do you, how do you prioritize?
Giancarlo: Did you ever read that book? The one thing? Yeah.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: That, that was it. I forget what the, the, the, the, the quote is, but it's like, what is the one thing that if by doing this one thing. [00:27:00] Everything will move forward and nothing else really, you know, matters. I, I don't remember what it was. Don't, don't quote me on that one, but he would say that you do that in your health of your life.
You do it with your family, you do that with work. So like, what's the one thing that I gotta do today that if by doing this thing, everything else is gonna fall into place? That's exactly how I look at
Josh: it. Yeah. Yeah. I have a, I have a similar, like, similar premise. I, so there's two things I do like, one is I have, they're called MITs.
So at any given time, like I can only have two. Maybe three things. Yeah. That are like, these are what's most important, right?
Giancarlo: Yeah.
Josh: So hire these two executives. It might be one of those things. And then one other, one other thing at most. And then basically everything on my calendar, you know, um, is, is prioritized by like, does, is it, is it solving that or not?
Yeah. And if it's not, like my assistant knows, just like, okay,
Giancarlo: yeah,
Josh: deprioritize, like, don't even do it or like push it. Um, and then if I happen to get to those things, um, after, then I, then I will. I try to do that same premise. It's hard, like, okay, what's, here's 12 problems that we have. What's one [00:28:00] thing that I could do that would, in doing that would solve these other 12?
Yeah. You know, you can always find it. Yeah. But it's great when you do,
Giancarlo: but I also, I also stopped worrying about not being good at other things.
Josh: Yeah, that's true.
Giancarlo: You know, it's, I, when I was. I worked for Sam, I worked for Sam Azarian for eight years, and I started as a service captain when I was 20 years old.
And by the time I had left, I didn't work in the job, but I, the last position I accepted was the vice president of the East Coast of food and Beverage when I was like 28 or 29 years old, which I, I signed the offer and then a week later I resigned to, to go be an entrepreneur. But, um, when I worked for Sam.
I had a reputation of just being like on it all the time, and I cared so much about being good at everything. And I think that that desire to be good at everything was how I learned everything, because I wanted to understand it. But now I just, I'm not a people pleaser necessarily, and I'm good at what I'm good at, which is driving projects forward.
You know, creating partnerships, [00:29:00] um, and, and more. But like the small minutia, if someone's like, oh, you didn't do great. I'm like, yeah, it's okay. You don't need to be good at everything. Yeah. And so I think as you get older, you, I think that's naturally what happens as you get older and more mature in your, in your, your career.
But I just don't worry about it. And if someone doesn't like what I did, I'm like, all right, that's cool. Yeah,
Josh: no, I think it does go back to that same conference level. You have to have like, okay, this is what I'm good at. This is my superpower. And, you know, everything else, you know, to find really good people that are better at that and, and love doing it.
Giancarlo: That's the thing, dude. You have to have great team around you. Yeah. More, I mean, especially in this business, like this is not, this is not a one person show. This is an, an entire team. I mean, mother Wolf, we have over a hundred employees Yeah. That make this happen every single day. I'm not the, you know, creating Mother Wolf was a team of people, you know, from design and concept.
And it was, it was, it wasn't just, it wasn't just one person.
Josh: Sort of like another direction here for a minute. 'cause I'm super curious. You have a bunch of deals that you're working on, or at least that you're considering, right? And the way [00:30:00] that you are building concepts, developing concepts, licensing things.
There's a lot of moving parts where you, a lot of people need to agree to something, right? You have a culinary or f and b team, you have a design team, you have, you know, maybe operation, whatever those, whatever the, you know, these different teams are. I have to imagine that the deals that you're doing are somewhat complex.
You have any like, or maybe they're not, but like, uh, are there, are there things that you think about that are like non-negotiables for signing a deal? Meaning like, whether it's a, like a, you know, a restaurant lease or a j like a joint venture, um, or license. Like, look, if these things aren't in place, it's a no go.
Giancarlo: Yeah. Well, I think in, in, in principle, when you're. When you're, when you're entering into a jv. Or you are entering into a license. It's gotta be mutual beneficial, mutually beneficial to all parties. I think starting there is really important. I think sometimes there's deals that get created that are one sided, especially in this industry, [00:31:00] you, you see that a lot in like management contracts where it's, you know, you have an, even an operator who only cares about getting their top line percentage.
They don't care about profitability. So I think. Deals need to be structured, that everybody's very focused on the deal and everybody's incentivized. And, and, and, and I think in principle that limits the kind of, uh, frustration that arises through the process. You know, you go through the, the honeymoon phase, pre-opening, but then when things get tough, you want everybody to be aligned.
And I think, so structuring deals that way is really important, I think in bigger deals. There tends to be more parties involved. You've got bigger financing, you've got multiple partners. There's a lot of decision making that you have to, to go through and you have to agree on, which are great, which is why I love smaller deals.
Um, I love what I'm doing with Nan right now, um, which is the, the fast casual p shop from Tel Aviv. Um, um, I love the food product. I love Chef Al Sha eat. He's such unique character, so I just love being [00:32:00] around that. He's totally an artist, but those deals are small deals. They're small, small capital raises.
I can find locations that are not AAA locations. They're like, you know, sub, you know, sub aa. It was like B tier locations. And I try to structure those deals with, with the, with the good people group who, um, that are inexpensive to open that way. I don't really need partners, it's just us and, and the good people group.
And those are the best deals. 'cause it's, it's much simpler when you have less people making decisions, less opinions.
Josh: How, is there like a typical like structure of whether it's like the, how do you structure the unit economics of. Uh, of these deals, when you have an an f and b partner, is there a certain way that you always go about it?
Is it like a percentage of top line? Is it, you know, like rent and then something on top of that once for hitting milestones? Like how do you, how do you typically like to structure these partnerships [00:33:00] with, with, with an f and b company like that?
Giancarlo: Well. When you work with different groups, different groups have their own ways of doing business.
So if I'm the, the, you know, I guess in a, in a studio environment, the studio is the one that's creating the contracts and dictating to everybody, you know, how this is gonna go. But in our business, a little bit different. If I want to go to M 32, their standards of doing business are different than the good people group and it's different than Evan Funky.
So I think it's in my best interest to be flexible on, on my end. Work with them on their standards of how deals get structured, and then try to make sure that at the end of the day, it's all beneficial to everybody and everybody's aligned. But I think there, there are standard like management deal contracts with, with third party operators and licensed, you know, licensed, uh, contracts.
But I, I just think it's, it's, we try to be flexible. If you've done, you know. Eight to 10 of the same concept, and I'm licensing it from you, well, you're gonna prioritize what you've done for those eight to 10 deals. [00:34:00]
Josh: Is there like a, an ideal way, like is the perfect structure if you could have it in every deal?
Giancarlo: I, there's too many elements, you know, there's too many elements. I don't think there's a, I don't know if there's a perfect deal.
Josh: What, I mean, like, I, I guess maybe just generally speaking, is it, do you prefer there to be a. Heavily vested interest in the overall, you know, economics of the business, or do you prefer to sort of fund it and let them, you know, let them do their thing, but the, the overall sort of EBITDA is on you?
Giancarlo: No, no. I, I get what you're saying. The entrepreneurial side of me is that I want to, I want to have the most control of the deal and the, the, the setup of the deal, the fundraising of the deal, the operations of the deal. Not because I'm a control freak, but at the end of the day, I'm betting. I'm always gonna bet on myself.
And I've been in situations where, you know, we've participated from kind of an arm length and. When you, when things aren't going well and you try to fix them, [00:35:00] it's much more difficult. 'cause now you're dealing with egos, you're dealing with other operators. And so at the end of the day, if I'm gonna do a project, I'm not gonna do a project where I can't go in and make the decision day of to, to move the, the business forward.
So that's why I think, and that's why a lot of people want control of deals because at the end of the day, you're betting on yourself and you wanna be able to make the decision and not have to go through bureaucracy to, to, to make any decisions. Yeah, it's all, it's easy when things are going really well, like if things are going well, everybody's happy, nobody's stressed out.
But the day thing, the day you have a, you know, the Palisades fires and, and the city goes like dark, and now you have to make really tough decisions. You wanna be able to make decisions fast.
Josh: Yeah. Is there any time that you've kind of, I don't wanna say gotten burned and actually that, that's a terrible way to put it, but, uh, but like in terms of deals that were set up, you're like, man, I really wish I'd set this up differently.
Giancarlo: I won't mention which one it specifically, it was, but I just don't like doing deals where, you know, we're, we're participating in arm's length.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: And that's, and that's happened before where, when [00:36:00] things weren't going extremely well. It was difficult to mobilize because at the end of the day, you wanna fix all the problems, but you're also not responsible for you.
You know, someone else is getting paid to fix those problems. So you're like, well, what are you here for? You know?
Josh: Yeah. Yeah.
Giancarlo: But again, so now I just try to avoid that situation by saying, Hey, we're not, we're just not gonna do that.
Josh: How does many design work once you decide to partner with him? He's known or a Evan.
Are you involved in that at all? When does it happen? Is it happening like before you're ever talking about the, you know, getting together?
Giancarlo: We focus on Los Angeles restaurants. I, I'm an Angeleno. I'm born and raised here. Um, so I feel like I have a pretty good sensibility of what works in El, in la. Um, not a hundred percent track record, but you know, I have a good sense of it.
Evan Funky is the same. He grew up in la. He's very successful. You don't have to. You don't have to, you don't really have to question him. You know, I always like to just speak my mind if I have a strong opinion on something and, and try to give my [00:37:00] perspective to a chef of, from the, from the guest perspective and from the front of house perspective.
And I think typically what I'm saying is pretty sensible. And so I feel like Evan would be receptive to, to that. Um, but then when you work with brands like Mod 32 or, you know, it's, it's not about trying to. Tell them how to change the menu or to make changes to the menu. It's just trying to help them understand what, what, it's just trying to help them understand what we know about LA Diners and, and then allow them to adjust the menu to the market.
You know, and a good example of that is Mott 32 is really well known for having a lot of obscure dishes that appeal to like a very finite, uh, like Chinese demographic. Do I know if that will work here? I'm not sure yet. There, there could be a market for it, but. Investing in having like 10 to 15 menu items might be excessive.
So it's like, all right, why don't we try with a couple of menu items when we open, and if it's a [00:38:00] hit, then expand on it. If not, we'll take it away. And I think just being a little bit more cautious
Josh: of
Giancarlo: that.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I imagine then you, you wanna also have at least some control over how that, how that can, can play out.
Yeah. Are there some. Parameters that are also like requirements, like certain margins, like, look, food cost has to be X or,
Giancarlo: yeah, for for sure. I mean, if your food cost isn't around like the 24%, 25%, it's, it's really difficult because labor is so expensive in Los Angeles. You know, mother looks great because you're se you know, it's flour and water and so your margins are really, really healthy on the food cost side.
Um, but when you start creeping into like the high twenties, it's, it's, it's difficult.
Josh: Yeah. And usually structured deals where like, that's part of, like, there other, other benchmarks they have to hit in terms of
Giancarlo: like Yeah, I mean there's certainly, there's certainly there are benchmarks, but I think in the spirit of, of a great partnership, you know, I think.
You just try to align on all the points and try to help each other to get there. You know, it's not like we're never [00:39:00] gonna be in a position. I'm never gonna be in a position where we license a brand and then they come in and say, well, these are our margins, and you just have to accept it. Like, we just wouldn't do business with someone like that.
It's like, Hey, from the beginning, what are your margins? Great. Sometimes I think, yeah, we can do better. You know, I'm like, well, you know, we have, you know, we are pretty organized. We, we, we have great standards of service. I think we can get to down a point or two and, and that's it. But it's very collaborative and if there's issues, I like to be able to call my partner and say, Hey, this is going on.
They're like, no problem. We'll, we'll get on it, you know?
Josh: Yeah, yeah. But by the way, you said you, you know what, like, you know, diners in LA like, you know, like with the food should be, what is it? Can you explain that? Like, and like how is that different from like New York?
Giancarlo: I think, I think in la. People really wanna feel connected to the chef and to the story of the concept, whether it's a, a chef driven or if it's like a restaurateur driven.
But I think most importantly, chef driven works really well in Los Angeles. Um, and I think, I think to be a big restaurant that appeals to an la like the LA audience, I [00:40:00] think your food can't be too precious. It has to be food that you feel like you can eat, you know, multiple times a month. Um, and I think Mother Wolf's a great example of that.
Um, our food is our, our food is solid. I mean, it's, I think we have the best pizza in the city, but it's not complex, you know, it's just, it's Evan's like, like maniacal commitment to consistency and making sure that when you have that pizza, it's the same every single time. You're always gonna have your different opinion of what's great pizza.
I like our style of pizza 'cause it's got a thinner crust and it's got crispy, it's got a crispy undercarriage, but, but it's consistent. When you go to Mother Wolf, I mean, it can't be perfect a hundred percent of the time, but you're, we're like there like 95% I think on the food side. And so I think, and I think at the end of the day, mother Wolf is this beautiful restaurant.
It's big. It's, it's, it's, it's. It's got Evan funky behind it. And so there's all these things that before you get in [00:41:00] here, before you arrive here, there's all these expectations. But at the end of the day, people understand Margarita Pizza and cacio Pepe and BCA Florentina, and it's like not complex, you know?
And so I think restaurants that. That do that food very well. They execute at a high level. They use good quality ingredients. I think that's what people like here.
Josh: Yeah. I feel like that's, that's almost universal, right?
Giancarlo: It is look like a look at a place like Javier's Restaurant. Have you been to Javier's yet?
Javier's is a restaurant, a Mexican restaurant that started down in Newport Beach and now they have multi-locations. Their restaurants are doing like the average unit's, doing like $33 million per location. It's absurd. They're big restaurants. They're probably like two 50 to 300 seat restaurants. There's one at Century City.
I've heard rumors that it does like 35 million a year. They open in downtown LA this year. Nobody's opening downtown LA anymore. Big restaurant. They opened Javier and I heard the numbers are consistent with with Century City, which is absurd. By the way, you're just getting like a really, a solid [00:42:00] $30 chicken quesadilla.
It's good. I like it. We, we go all the time. But like the food is not complex. It's got enchiladas, it's got some steak, steak dishes, but it's a, it's just like a, you, like a very like mid-market, uh mm-hmm. Mexican restaurant. Yeah. But they crush it. But it's packed because at the end of the day, people know the food and
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: It's not too precious. It's not overly, it's like. Sometimes food can, sometimes restaurants can do too much with a dish.
Josh: Yeah, no, I, I totally agree. I think, you know, we were talking about this with institutions, but like the, I think the most important thing in any restaurant is just consistency. Be consistent honestly in life.
Really. Just can you do something consistently over time. Yeah. And by the way, that doesn't mean it needs to be insane, like. As long as it's good. Right. But whatever that meat, whatever it is, whether it's good or great or incredible, you have can you do that every single day? 'cause people don't come back.
You
Giancarlo: and, and the food, I think the food can't be too intense.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And, and if it is, yeah, you're not gonna have frequency. But the, at the very least, I, I [00:43:00] think what's hard about that is it's hard to keep that up over time as well. You know, there's, you know, whether it's, you know, something like Javier's, which is probably pretty simple food, but they figured out how to make sure they executed it.
At the same time, every single time you go, or if you go to Mother Wolf, and it's the same time every time you go or you go to Noma. Right. And at least you, you know what to expect and you're gonna get that thing every single time. You gotta be able to like, execute and deliver on the thing that you, like you said.
Giancarlo: Yeah.
Josh: In the beginning, every single time
Giancarlo: you wanna be reliable.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. It's like the most important thing. Um, speaking of that, like I, it does seem like you also think a lot about like, developing your team from within you probably, I, I imagine you learned a lot of that from Mina and, and, and others that you work for.
How do you think about like developing like your bench of talent?
Giancarlo: Well, you have to build a bench and you, and I think the best way to build a bench is from within and the, the most loyal people you'll have in your company are the people that started with you probably at some level, like three, four steps below.
You know, I was fortunate when I was really young to [00:44:00] start working with Michael and I was 16 when we opened Sea Blue at MGM in Las Vegas. I went to high school in Vegas and uh, my dad's like, you gotta,
Josh: you were 16?
Giancarlo: Yeah, I was 16. My dad's like, you gotta get a job. He is like, this guy Michael Mina is opening a restaurant at MGM Grand called Sea Blue.
He's like, you should go be a busboy. There I was. Okay, cool. And. It was hard work. I was, I was going to school full time and then I was going to work after and was staying at work till 12 1 2 in the morning and then going back to school the next day. And it was, it was a grind. It was really hard work, but I was, I liked being in the restaurant and I had good mentors, a guy named Patrick Yuel, who was moved on to be the president of, uh, media Group and is now with MGM Resort.
He was this cool guy that was the gm, and I was like, I could, I could aspire to be that guy. And so I, you know, and, and then, uh, he, he gave, he, he looked at, what he looked at in me was that I was very hardworking, I was dedicated, and I was disciplined. And he saw that and then helped develop me. And he was like the first mentor I had.[00:45:00]
And so now in our organization, when I'm looking at who's gonna be the next person that we. Start to develop. First thing we look for is like, who's very disciplined, who shows up every single day, is like relentless about being on time, whose uniform is always pressed, who always takes good care of their, their, their, their appearance and their grooming.
Who always polishes their shoes? Like who, those people who have the discipline because this business takes a tremendous amount of discipline. And, and then from there you just start to slowly develop these people and their positions. And then see what their after appetite for a bit of growth is. Are they, are they eager to learn more?
Do they wanna move up through the ranks? And I think in a restaurant you'll have like, you know, 3, 4, 5 of those people that you can eventually develop, you know, um,
Josh: like do you have like systems or like how, like how do you operationalize that? It's one thing like, like, yeah, let's make sure we find these folks and develop.
And I totally agree with that. You gotta like earn the right to, to be, to be mentored. But like, are there any systems in place for your team to know? Okay. We identify [00:46:00] this person, and now our job is to do X and this is how we do it.
Giancarlo: Well, f first of all, we have, we have very consistent standards of service.
You know, we, we, we, we we're in the restaurants. We use a lot of checklists. Uh, we have systems set up for consistency. But it's really in our, it's really in our like weekly management meetings that we talk, that I talk to the team and, you know, we talk through, you know, the, the employees that work for us and, and try to identify like, who's doing great.
And we talk, we really just talk through it. And then if there's somebody that stands out, then we'll start to be like, all right, well, why don't we, you know, try to give them more opportunity or start, you know, start doing one-on-ones. One of the best tools, which a lot of managers don't do this at all. Not even, not enough, but in, in a lot of restaurants is one-on-ones.
And so if you are having one-on-ones, it doesn't have to be every single day, but if you have a team of a hundred employees every month. A manager should have had a one-on-one with at least one of the employees, right? So like if you are in charge of the servers, then [00:47:00] every month you should have had a one-on-one with each of your servers.
And that's how you keep your finger on the pulse. That's how you see who's still engaged. That's how you find out what's wrong in the restaurant. But it's a simple conversation. Doesn't need to be formal, but it's just a sit down like this and just saying, Hey, what's going on? How's it going? What's new?
How's your family? Are you still happy being here? Is there anything we can fix? And it's like that three to five minute conversation gives you so much knowledge in your business. And, and, and if you can be the type of manager or owner or operator that's takes that conversation is okay, actually. That's good feedback.
We'll adjust that.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I totally, I totally agree, Ben. Are, are there times when, when you're thinking about a new project that the, actually, the impetus for it is I got someone, they're really good. There's nowhere else for them to move. A hundred percent. And now I gotta find a place for them.
Giancarlo: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: Yeah.
Josh: How do you, how does that, how often does that happen?
Giancarlo: It's a minute right now.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: It's like I've got team members where I'm like, man, if I don't, if I don't continue to build a path for them, then you know, they're gonna end up, they're gonna end up going [00:48:00] somewhere else.
Josh: It's a great, I mean, it's a great, it's a great sign.
It's a great feeling. It's also a ton of pressure, right? 'cause you're like, man, this person is not gonna be a general,
Giancarlo: I wanna do it anyways though. You know, I, I, I'm, I wanna do it anyways, you know? But I, I have, um. I think one thing with me is that, and I don't know how long I'll be able to keep this going, but I keep a very tight team and I don't necessarily want that team to expand too much.
I want to be able to, like, I would rather have, you know, call it 10 restaurants in LA that I can manage with this one team, and we all do well, and we all have opportunity financially to make more money and all these things. Then try to grow too big and have too big of a corporate team or too many people that I'm trying to grow.
So I would rather just focus on the team that I have. And there's, it creates some limits because at a certain point, if you are, if you are working for them. If there's a ceiling for you, because they're not going, ideally they're not going anywhere. But that's okay because I started off and I wanna take [00:49:00] care of this one core group of team, uh, of, of, of my team members.
And, and, and there's gonna be some limit to our growth as a result. But at the end of the day, you see this all the time. Companies get too big, they grow their corporate teams too aggressively. They have two greatest salaries on payroll, and eventually it doesn't last actually. I don't know any of the groups that have lasted, like people that were kind of like early employees at the corporate level that 10, 15 years later are still there.
And all of the companies I could reference are companies that grew really fast. They grew, they grew nationwide, they got huge corporate payrolls, and then eventually it scaled down.
Josh: Yeah. No,
Giancarlo: that's, it's, it's all, all the companies that I worked for, the groups I it went through that, went through that.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: You know?
Josh: No, it's true. Yeah. Or they had to sort of. Kind of, uh, commoditize or, or, or, or, or change into a different type of company. And then there's a different person that you end up having hiding, but it's
Giancarlo: different. Yeah. So if I can, if I can [00:50:00] create a company on my end or create projects that give, you know, I have a great culinary director.
He is been with me for, for five years now.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: You know, I, I asked him like, what's your idea of retirement? You know, what does he, what do you wanna do? And his simple, his response was simple. He is like, I want to buy a cabin up near in like the Redwoods and Yosemite area. I'm like, we're gonna figure out how to make that happen.
You know, just stick with me. We're gonna, we're gonna make that happen. But I would get the greatest pleasure in life if in 10, 15, 20 years from now he's retired and that's where he's at.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: You know, but you can't do that for everybody.
Josh: Yeah. No, I, I love that though. Well, I mean, look, you, you, like I said, we said this in the beginning, like you, your DNA is definitely.
Hospitality. Your dad was a pretty well known maitre d What's your guys' relationship like?
Giancarlo: Oh man, it's amazing.
Josh: Tell me about it.
Giancarlo: Um, growing up, I, I've always respected, I loved my father and, uh, I certainly admired him. Um, it's pretty funny because when I was, um, you know, [00:51:00] probably like eight to 13 years old in that age range.
My father was the mare d at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. Then he had his own restaurant. I used to think my father was in the mafia. All my friends thought he was in the Mafia. So like, it was kind of funny 'cause he wore a suit every day. He had that kind of, that kind of, uh, that maitre d mentality. We used to joke about it a lot.
His kids put, he was, he was the, he was the best. He's the best and he's still the best. And so he's the one who got me into hospitality a little bit by force. But, uh, you know, we, we appreciate him now. But now my father actually, you know, he consults with me on all the projects. And two years ago, he's been in Vegas for like the past like 20 something years.
But two years ago, our general manager of Mother Wolf, um, took another opportunity in Beverly Hills. And the issue that I've been having with managers in LA is that this generation that my father comes from of, of restaurateur or ma e general manager, whatever you call it, um. It's kind of a dying [00:52:00] breed.
You know, there's are people who have hospitality in their blood through and through and the way they, they present themselves in the restaurant. The way, the way they move through a dining room, the way they, they interact with is with guests and with staff is like, you gotta learn it from someone like that.
I learned it really young from Mina group 'cause you know, that's, I learned a tremendous amount from those guys. So I actually asked my dad two years ago, I said, Hey, can you come to la. And can you spend some times with the management here? And I said, I just want you to rub off on them a little bit. And so that they, they, they see what your generation of, of, of Mare d general manager is like.
And it was, you know, on one hand you have somebody who's like very, things are black and white and they, it can be a bit of a, uh, he can be tough. It's like firm but fair. And so I think the team wasn't necessarily used to that, but. He's consistent and every single day he comes in and he goes, what's going on with your shoes?
Did you shine 'em today? You know, why is your collar a little bit, uh, [00:53:00] yellow? Right. Whatever it is. And so now, you know, now I have three generations of, of, of Paani in the house. We got me, my two and a half year old son, and, and my dad. And we, we spent a lot of time together and, and my dad works with me and so Cool.
It's the greatest. It's honestly the, it's the greatest. Yeah.
Josh: What do you, what do you think he's most, what do you think he's most proud of you for?
Giancarlo: I mean, you know, he's a great dad, so he says it all the time. But like, you know, I think, I think he's just proud that I, I, I keep going, you know, I keep building and, um, and I take care of a lot of people around me and, um, I don't know.
I think he's just, you know, my dad took his, took his stab at being an entrepreneur. He had a restaurant in the late nineties and in West Hollywood called Pagan. And, um, it lasted about two years, different time and um, I think for him to see that I've followed the path but also kind of gone fur a bit further, I think he's really proud.
Josh: Yeah. You think there's anything that he's like frustrated with you about
Giancarlo: Yeah, I am. I am who I am. At work, at home, [00:54:00] all this stuff. And, and I'm just like, I'm very direct. And he, it's funny 'cause when he moved into my house after like a month of like working with me, being at the house, he came to me, he said, Giancarlo, I know you're the boss.
And he goes, at home, I'm your father. And it resonated. I'm like, like shit.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: Such
Josh: a Yeah, it's
Giancarlo: such because I come home and I'm just like, what's happening here? Why is your car in the driveway?
I, I gotta leave at 9:00 AM move your, you know, he is like, slow down.
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: I'm still your dad.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, my, my dad passed away when I was 16 and, um, he wanted me to go to Wharton. He never even knew I was gonna be a chef. Uh, I feel like he probably would've been upset if I, if, if he found it out.
Um, although now I guess I'm in, I'm in business, but there's like a million things I would have said to him now and. I know you're, you know, you, you're closer, dad, you guys like talk all the time, but do you think there's anything that you, uh, don't say to him enough or that you feel like [00:55:00] you've never said to him that you'd wanna tell him?
Giancarlo: No. I mean, I feel bad that I'm always so direct and like sometimes I have to like, take a step back and be like, give 'em a hug and be like, you know, we're family. That's the things I think about a lot because I'm just go, go, go. I'm so busy all the time and I just don't, um. I don't really treat people differently, you know, and so I think that's typically what I regret with him is that sometimes I'm too direct with him and, but I do try, I did have a conversation with like six months ago where, you know, at the end of the night he'll come home or in the morning and I'm having my coffee, and he'll sit down and he'll immediately start talking about work.
And I tell 'em, no, no talking about work at home anymore. I'm like, that's, we gotta, we gotta kick that habit. Yeah. 'cause then it becomes like we, we never get away from it. Yeah. But now it's like we just try to have a relationship where it's not all about work. And to be honest, once he starts talking about things related to work, I'm like, we'll talk about it later.
Yeah. You know, and I'm pretty, I'm pretty [00:56:00] disciplined and that's what I'm really direct. I'm like, dad, stop. And he's just like, yeah, you're right. 'cause it's like, let's talk about something else. Like
Josh: Yeah.
Giancarlo: You know,
Josh: it's stuff, I was just talking about this yesterday. Um, actually on the panel with, with Mina and them, we are, as entrepreneurs, we're just always on.
We're always going. And there's, you know, it's inevitable. You can't, you can't be this and not, and not do that. But you do have to find those times to, to stop. Kids are like the best forcing function for that. I always find at home, my wife is like, you know, she'll know like, it'll be like a Sunday afternoon and we're at the park with kids and she's like, and see where your head is at right now.
You're like thinking about something in your head and you do have to find those times. You gotta find the time. You can just stop and, and be. 'cause it, especially when we have kids, like you got a two and a half year old, I got a four and 6-year-old. That that goes by fast.
Giancarlo: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm on, I, I'm already through my first marriage, so you know, that that mentality probably didn't, didn't work out too well for me.
So I actually, that that's another good learning thing where it's like, now I gotta take a step back and be like, okay, you know, [00:57:00] at home you have to try to be different than you are when you're at work. But it's difficult 'cause you're just on all the time. And even when you're home people, people don't.
People don't allow you to be home. You're just still getting hit up all day long. Yeah. It doesn't matter where you are, so you're always on to an extent. Yeah. But yeah, with kids and with the girlfriend or the wife, you know, you gotta, you gotta give 'em the time.
Josh: Yep. Yep. Well, I mean, you know, I love that you have sort of, you're so multidisciplinary and um, and that's how you're building this thing.
Is there, is there just like future looking, is there something that you haven't really gotten deep in the weeds that you wanna start working on too?
Giancarlo: I, I think we're in the, one of the hardest businesses, and I love this business, and it's like, it's what drives me. I've, I'm like, I'm always thinking about what can I be doing still within the industry, but not in opening and operating a restaurant.
And I just haven't found that, that thing just yet. And I've had some ideas and concepts and I just haven't really pursued anything. So like,
Josh: what, what are some [00:58:00] of that is.
Giancarlo: Well, you know, my partner Wes Aviel and I, you know, he guy makes the best hot sauce, you know, and so we had one point thought about, why don't we start, you know, co-packing hot sauce, and it was just an idea.
I think that that might not be too viable right today. But I just think that I'd like to try doing things, at least try at least one business where it not operating a restaurant.
Josh: Yeah. Love it, man. Well, I'm excited to keep following your journey and uh, thanks for taking this time, man. I appreciate it.
Giancarlo: Oh, my pleasure.
Josh: Yeah. Thanks
Giancarlo: Josh.
Josh: Thanks for tuning into The meez podcast. The music from the show is a remix of the Song Art Mirror by an old friend, hip hop artist, fresh daily. For show notes and more, visit getmeez.com/podcast. That's getmeez.com/podcast. If you enjoyed the show, I'd love it if you can share it with fellow entrepreneurs and culinary pros and give us a five star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Keep innovating, don't settle. Make today a little bit better than yesterday. And remember, it's impossible for us to learn what we think we already know. [00:59:00] See you next time.
