Josh Sharkey: I'm here with the founders of Tilit. Um,
Jenny Goodman: It's a real working office.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Okay. Well, we're in the office guys, so if there's phone ringing and you need to take it during the, during the call, I would like that because then we can just see how you work with your customers and you know, we can just answer it anyways.
Thanks for being here. We met at NRA in person for the first time. Like a week ago. Right? That's the first time we met in person.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah. I was just trying to think about it. I was like, we hadn't met in person before. I feel like we met at or I, a million years ago when we were doing [00:02:00] aprons for melt.
Josh Sharkey: Really?
Jenny Goodman: Uhhuh, remember going to or I, that's
Josh Sharkey: I do. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I actually, a hundred years ago, Josh Morgan. I totally forgot about that.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. 'cause Josh Morgan. Yeah. That's. That's crazy. Okay. So we didn't meet once, but that was a long time ago. But that was like another
Jenny Goodman: lifetime ago. But we really met again in NRA.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. And I'm gonna sort of just have a couple of conversations that we already had. Uh, again, because one, it was loud. Mm-hmm. There were drinks and I heard most of it, but not all of it. So I would love to start with how you two met, and I believe it was in New Orleans.
Jenny Goodman: That's correct.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah.
Alex McCrery: We were working at New Orleans Stalwart Commander's Palace.
I. And I was in the kitchen. Jenny was in front of house. So sort of classic pairing and um, yeah. Who hit on who? Like, or was It Depends on who you ask, I guess. Right?
Josh Sharkey: If somebody asked the other person out first,
Alex McCrery: or
Josh Sharkey: I. I,
Alex McCrery: I'm pretty sure I asked you out. You didn't ask me out. [00:03:00] Yeah.
Jenny Goodman: Really Did not ask you out.
Yeah. Okay. So I was a college student at Tulane. I'm like getting a little embarrassed of filming. She's getting read. Um, I was a college student at Tulane and I was working front of house and it was one of my, like, you know, I, it was the, it was the way that I was getting to eat fine dining, food, and I used to go around to all the stations at the end of the night and ask for the chefs to cook me something.
So that's why Alex is saying who flirted with who first. So. I would say that I did go and flirt with Alex first and was like, can I have some of your soup? Can you make me that plate with the truffled mashed potatoes? But he definitely hit on me at the bar. And then again, when, um, I was sitting at a coffee shop, studying, came in, rode up on his bicycle on the way to work and pulled up next to me.
And that was how we really first started talking.
Josh Sharkey: Was it right away, like right, right when you met her, you're like, oh, I'm just gonna start my pursuit.
Alex McCrery: No, I think we worked together for a little while. I. No.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah,
Alex McCrery: yeah,
Jenny Goodman: yeah.
Alex McCrery: What was it like working at Commander's Palace? I mean, I had a fantastic journey in some [00:04:00] respects and a tragic journey in other, mm-hmm.
Respects. Um, it's a giant restaurant, um, lots of people to learn from. Um, lots of very interesting food, obviously, you know, a lot of history in that restaurant. And then it was also like a different era of kitchen in, you know, the early hots. When, when was this? What, like, what was the year? So it was like 2002 or ish to 2005.
Oh,
Josh Sharkey: yeah. Yeah. So Katrina, essentially, uh, what was, you said tragic. What was, what was the
Alex McCrery: tragic
Josh Sharkey: part?
Alex McCrery: Several things that there, I had a mentor that was, you know, my, my first mentor in the kitchen. Um, who was the CDC, who was drove home drunk one night and crashed and died. Jesus. Um, so that was a big, a big piece and a really, you know, hard thing to deal with.
How old was he? He was young. You know, two kids married, um, lived across the lake and oh my God. Just a [00:05:00] tragic, tragic thing to, to see. So, um, that's insane. And then the fallout and you know, how people respond, whether they're, you know, responded well or in the kitchens it's hard to respond Well. 'cause there's so many, you know, things to, to.
Get you through poorly with drugs and alcohol and those kind of things? Well, I mean,
Josh Sharkey: kitchens too, like you don't really deal with the outside world. At least back then it was, there was no holidays or, you know, family issues. So like what, what was that like in the kitchen? Mental health was not a priority in 2000.
No. Among many other things. Did they, did you guys talk about it in the kitchen?
Alex McCrery: No. I mean, you talked about it, um, at the bar afterwards. Um, a little bit and you know, I think it was, um, definitely not. You know, what would happen now is that, you know, your, your team, your ownership would sit down and like, have conversations and maybe bring in someone to talk to everybody and like make sure that people are.
Finding their way through. And you know, I don't think that was necessarily a fault of the restaurant. I think it was a fault of the time. Yeah. That [00:06:00] that just didn't happen. You know,
Jenny Goodman: there weren't organizations like Southern Smoke and Ben's friends that would help folks like Ethan, who obviously had a problem.
And there was a lot of people with substance abuse issues, you know, thinking back at it and, yeah, no, I mean, I worked at the restaurant at the same time and I, there was this outside the funeral, there was no like cathartic moment for the team to really process. Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Well, I mean, that's tragic. Outside of, of that, what, what was the culture like at Commanders Brows?
I mean, it's, it's an institution.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah. I mean, I think, um, for me it was they really cared about hospitality and like, that was my first entree into understanding like, this is a place where you make the guest experience and where you make their memories and where they will think about that meal and how they felt when they had this graduation dinner at Commander's Palace surrounded by their friends and family.
And you know, the, the proprietors, Ella Brennan and Dottie Brennan and now Lally and um, and t Martin really. I think instill that and carry that on. And I like working in front [00:07:00] of house, watching them and how they interacted with guests and how they had the mare d and the mare D was the first person to really greet people.
And you don't see that anymore. Like the art of the mare DI feel is, is sort of lost at this point. Um, but really that was important. Set the stage for, for the experience.
Josh Sharkey: Have you been back, you know, there's, last time you met there?
Alex McCrery: Yeah, we go, we, we go to New Orleans, you know, usually once a year at least.
And um, there's usually a trip to commanders in there. Where else do you go when you go back? We always try to do Clancy's as a favorite for a classic. Um, I think Turkey and the Wolf for, for a sandwich. And then it's usually trying to, you know, hit either customers always, always hitting customers and clients and friends of Tillett.
And then, um, something new, I think in the last like 10 years that the willingness for New Orleanians to embrace like a new type of cuisine has really opened up. You know, prior, it was not that you had to have, you know, classic Creole food on your menu or else you were just [00:08:00] not a restaurant in New Orleans.
And now there are things that are pushing boundaries within Mexican food, within Asian food within. Sandwich culture, like all kinds of things that have really like, um, spawn new ideas from younger chefs.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah, I, Akamai is the best meal I've had in a long time, um, which is Chef Korus new restaurant and it's like blends Mexican food using, um, local New Orleans and Louisiana ingredients.
It was insane.
Josh Sharkey: I love the food there. Yeah. Oh, so where do you go for Po Boys? Parkway Parkway. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny Goodman: Dom, you used to like Dom's. I You're Donals guy. Yeah, I like Dom and people are very passionate about Dom's. It's just.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah, if
Jenny Goodman: you go in the kitchen there, you'll have different feelings.
Yeah. I mean, look, I have,
Josh Sharkey: I, I would not want to go in the kitchen, but the shrimp poboy is
Jenny Goodman: pretty. Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. I dated one of the sandwich girls
Alex McCrery: at, so I, I stick with Parkway.
Jenny Goodman: That's, I don't think I knew that
Josh Sharkey: well. Well, now I know. There we go. Let's talk about this girl you dated from, from Don's. How'd you meet?
No, I'm just kidding. No, [00:09:00] no. Um. What about Jockos? You like Jockos?
Jenny Goodman: I love Jockos. I, I mean,
Josh Sharkey: I, is it, is it like fun to say that the alligator cheesecake is like my,
Jenny Goodman: we had it at our wedding. We, black red
Josh Sharkey: fish is like, I mean it's classic. What is that thing by the way? Like what alligator cheesecake? I have no idea.
It's alligator question. Alligator sausage.
Jenny Goodman: But yeah, don't ask questions. It's, but we literally had it at our wedding on it. Really? Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: And they fried chicken. Yeah.
Jenny Goodman: And their fried chicken. Yeah. I
Josh Sharkey: don't know if it was like cliche to say that, that place, but I love
Jenny Goodman: k crabby Jacks has often been one of our first stops.
Yeah. Our, um, our youngest daughter is a, a gumbo aficionado, um, both from Alex cooking it for her and then from just visiting New Orleans. So we often do like a gumbo taste test every day with her to, to see which one
Alex McCrery: shes best. What makes a good gumbo other than the real. I mean the roo is clutch. I think I'm a personally a chicken ue guy, um, over seafood and I don't know, I think balance our winner.
Last time I think we had five, and between Izzy, our youngest and myself, [00:10:00] I. Miss River Aiaas Place, newest.
Jenny Goodman: This restaurant had the
Alex McCrery: best one and that was actually a duck gumbo, I think. Think it was duck. It was also very dark brew. And our daughter
Jenny Goodman: said this broth is the right broth. Daughter broth. She's five.
Josh Sharkey: Your daughter is five. And she gumbo. She gets it. Yeah, she gets that. Oh man.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: I wish. Year old doesn't actually, you know what my, I think my 4-year-old would eat combo, but I don't think my son definitely,
Jenny Goodman: yeah, the oldest one is still on the, uh, white food diet. Oh yeah. So don't worry. And she's eight, so that's good.
Yeah. My son is don't, don't go bad
Josh Sharkey: feta bread. Um, how did you end up in New York?
Jenny Goodman: I moved to New York after I graduated from college. I got a job here, um, not in hospitality first. And, um, and yeah, so sort of a boring story for me. But now
Alex McCrery: I came up in the summer of 2005 to do like a STA at Ariel, um, just as like a learning experience.
Then Quebec, and then in the fall of 2005 was Katrina. So everything shut down in New Orleans. Commander shut down for over a year. Um, my [00:11:00] apartment was gone and so I just stayed. So,
Josh Sharkey: hold on. Were you two not together when you
Jenny Goodman: No, we like, you know, kind of just hooked up at the first, first meetings in, uh, in New Orleans for being honest about it.
And then when he, um, moved here for that summer, we reconnected and that's when our personal and romantic relationship really started.
Josh Sharkey: So what was the sort of the spark of tilt? I'm sure it didn't happen like all of a sudden.
Alex McCrery: It was definitely like a, you know, a work in progress. So I, um, I. I went from being in professional kitchens to being a private chef.
Um, so essentially working with a bunch of people to working on my own. And when I did that, you know, obviously the uniform needs changed and I, you know, was asked to wear a uniform of some sort. And so wearing the things that were available just felt off. Especially when I was going out to the market, going to Whole [00:12:00] Foods, gonna the groceries and walking around the streets of New York and, you know, a chef coat and a classic chef coat that Ill fitting and a pair of check pants or, um, whatever the, whatever the clothes were at that time.
And so I started, you know, looking at other clothes, you know, whether it was just stuff from J Ru or um, street clothes and, you know, there was nothing that married the. Functionality of chef wear with street wear. And so that's, that was the spark. And um, and then I was also, you know, really fueled by the idea that like I was, you know, in a very good place in my career, I was paying a good amount of money for a chef.
And I didn't, I didn't feel good. I didn't feel proud what, with the clothes that I was wearing. And that, that was just a real disconnect for me.
Josh Sharkey: Was there some sort of like fashion or design background or something that happened to you that. That, that catalyze that, like the, the idea that you just wanted to feel better in your clothes?[00:13:00]
Alex McCrery: Yeah, I mean, I think, I've always been in the clothes. I think New York is, you know, fashion capital and so, and then, you know, living in, and being in the Lower East side, um, I think it's such a, you know, um, wonderful place for street wear and for, you know, interesting ideas around clothing. Um, and then I had a friend, I still have a friend.
She's been a wonderful supporter of the brand and she connected me. She had worked in fashion, um, she was working at Kate Spade at the time and connected me with some of her friends, and one of them also sort of guided me through the process of making clothes in Manhattan and connected me with a pattern maker.
So he was a, uh, Japanese men's work wear pattern maker, which was kind of a perfect fit for what I was thinking. And he just like immediately got my ideas. I'd bring him in these. You know, rudimentary sketches of a chef coat or of a shirt, apron, pants. Um, and he turned them into patterns that immediately [00:14:00] worked.
So
Josh Sharkey: what was the point when you guys decided you were all in, like, this is okay, I'm gonna stop doing everything doing and just do, just do this?
Alex McCrery: I think it was a trickle, you know, it was a bit of a trickle. It wasn't just a single day. So we, we started, you know, with having another job and ran it for about six months.
How did you sell the clothes online? Just set up a Shopify, uh, website from the beginning. I mean, Shopify has been an incredible platform that has, you know, was not only easy to use then, but it has adapted really well over the last 12 years and, you know, numerous ways and growing with our brand and still being hyperfunctional.
Um, I think it was super easy and without that technology. That would've been so much harder. You know, I think that like having that accessible and easy to use really made it possible. I mean, the, the website if you looked at it now was probably junk, and I'm surprised that anyone bought stuff from us, [00:15:00] but I mentioned, and the photos and all
Josh Sharkey: those things, you know.
But I imagine you were also just selling locally to people here, right?
Alex McCrery: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, you know, I had, I still had a decent amount of, uh, context in the industry and so tested things on them for a while before we launched at all. Yeah, I think just word of mouth was the, is how we've grown. I think it's still the, the biggest way that we grow is that people try the products, enjoy it, you know?
And especially then it was a very novel idea that you would have, you know, a really cool pair of pants that you wore to work as a chef. Like before it was just, you had, you know, crappy pants that you wore to work, that everybody wore to work. That was just the thing. And then, you know, somebody was like, oh wow, those are interesting and those are neat, and I actually like those.
Let me. Tell my buddy about 'em. So, um, they really traveled well like that. I think
Josh Sharkey: it's crazy when you think about, I mean, I don't know if it's this, I haven't been in kitchens in a while, but, you know, when you're working 80, 90 hour weeks, the vast majority of your time is spent in a kitchen. Yeah. And if you're wearing, you know, what, Dickies or whatever the, you know.
[00:16:00] Um, it's not super comfortable
Jenny Goodman: and chefs are still gearhead, so it's like people, you know, obviously it's like people talk and that's always been referrals for us. I think like 60% of our traffic is still literally organic and referral based.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Well, that makes sense. I mean, what's been the biggest change for you all, like starting a, now that you have a clothing company, because you, this is not clearly what you set out to do, I presume, when you started in kitchens or in front of the house, like what, what is the biggest difference running this company from when you were in restaurants?
I
Jenny Goodman: think it's funny 'cause I still say we work front of house and back of house, right? So I still more like, you know, work on the sales and the marketing side and on the overall business and Alex still does the design and, um, the creative direction and runs the production. So I, I feel like in some ways we still have those, those roles and there's still very team based, right?
So I think there's a lot of teamwork involved and we're still very much in the industry. Like I see ourselves as an extension of hospitality and we, we say like. Our customers are guests in our dining room. Um, and I think we just try to run the company like it's a hospitality business and, you [00:17:00] know, people are our partners, not our, we're not their vendor.
Alex McCrery: My biggest difference is I sit down to eat. I go to sleep at nine 30 and I wake up at six o'clock in the morning. So, and holidays, you can, and I'm off. Yeah, living more Mothers Day es I'm living the dream, but I'm still in hospitality. Yeah. I still get to enjoy the people that I love and the business that I love, but yeah, I sit way more.
Yeah,
Jenny Goodman: but you don't like that necessarily? Yeah,
Josh Sharkey: it's a balance. Yeah. I have a hard time sitting when I'm doing things. Um, I have to like stand up. You know, one of the things that, that in a restaurant is really difficult is obviously like being creative and or innovative, whatever, whatever you wanna call it.
And then also being profitable. I have to imagine it's the same here. Like, you wanna do all these things. Is that something that's top of mind? What, in, in, in, in what you're doing here? Or is it something that is, it comes a lot easier?
Alex McCrery: A hundred percent. I mean, I think it's like the biggest challenge and I like a challenge and I think that that's [00:18:00] fun.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be any fun. But, you know, one of the challenges for our brand is that brand we wanna make really cool and interesting things and hyperfunctional things obviously. But they all have to fall within a price point that people can purchase them. Right? So not, we're not a, you know, um, a runway brand that can have a 400 jacket.
Like it's just can't happen, right? So like you're working within parameters that are, you know, challenging at times. And so, like pulling off something interesting and then still have it be at an attainable price point is, is a really big one. And I think we balance that with having like our core stock collection of things that.
You need for every day. And then the seasonal collections that we do that are just really fun. Um, and those end up being a little bit more expensive. But I think that they're like sort of those collectors pieces that you can have like a Puffer apron. Yeah.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah. It's like we have to balance being a volume business with also still offering items that like surprise and delight and get the community excited, um, that you [00:19:00] normal chef wear brand wouldn't be providing.
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Yeah, we gotta start designing, uh, the jackets for maa. Yeah, I bet they could have a 400 jacket, probably. Yeah. So I am curious like about the, the, I guess you'd still call it the RD process when you're thinking about new things to design, like net new things, right? I'm sure you have other aprons that you make and things like that, other clothes.
But what is the sort of impetus for like designing a, a completely new piece of clothing?
Alex McCrery: I think a big part of it is talking to the community. I think we've done that from the beginning, and I, I mean, I think what made what made us different as a, as a work wear brand, as a chef brand from the beginning was the fact that I had been in kitchens for 18 years before we started this.
I actually knew what people wanted.
Jenny Goodman: Uh,
Alex McCrery: I, I knew how people were working. I knew it was missing. Um, and as I've grown out of the kitchen [00:21:00] and like I said, sitting on my ass a lot more, we've increased how we tap into people that are working in the hospitality community. And that's everybody. And the community has changed quite a bit too.
So there's things like, um, women's work wear that we're not as prevalent or not at all available when I was in the kitchen. And there are a lot more women in leadership positions and a lot more women in the kitchen in general. And so talking to people about what's necessary. And what they want to see.
And then developing from there. And we get a lot of ideas that are not feasible, or not things that we're necessarily gonna make, but then we get a lot that are also, and then we spend plenty of time developing in them, and then we bring in that same community to test them before we finish it and, and put it out there.
Josh Sharkey: What does that look like? The uh, like how do you prototype and, and, and when you're testing, are you gonna restaurants or.
Alex McCrery: Well, we start with ideas, um, and we, you know, field those ideas with a survey from the chefs. And then essentially we start to build, um, a pattern sample. Uh, once we [00:22:00] have a sample, we review it obviously to make sure that we like it, 'cause we're not gonna put anything out that, that we don't like.
Um, even if it's highly requested and that it works. So it's a wash, washing and wearing. Um, and so we usually pick like one person just to wear the first sample and, and see how it feels. And from there, if we like it, then we move on. To a, a broader set of samples, maybe a size run. Um, this is sort of in reference to our women's chef pants.
That was the most run, most recent one that we've done this way. And we brought a bunch of people in to try on different sizes to, you know, so that we could see how it looked on them so that they could, so we could see their expressions when they put them on. Um, we could hear their feedback when they walked around and moved in them.
Um, and then if there's more edits to make, we make them. Then we go to full production. Usually when we do full production, we start small again so that there's like another essential round of testing out there in the marketplace. And then if those sell and there's not a bunch of bad reviews coming back, or there's positive reviews, or there's [00:23:00] reviews that the pockets in the wrong place or something of that effect, then we adjust and go on to a bigger run.
It's a long process. That's
Josh Sharkey: cool. You can do that. That you can iterate like that. Mm-hmm. Are, are there, are there some like absolute hell no. We're never gonna make this kind of. Clothing. Shorts. Shorts. We haven made shorts.
Jenny Goodman: We what? You just made shorts again. We have shorts coming out. Oh God, that's so surprising to say shorts.
Well, we had made chef shorts like one in the very early years and they did not sell well. People keep asking for them, but people, but they don't buy them. Loved them, but then they didn't buy them. How
Josh Sharkey: can you, how can you do the Cayman? Island cookout without shorts. We're wearing chef shorts. You have shorts?
Come on.
Jenny Goodman: So every three years is, yep. It's been about three years since it Summer shorts. The summer. Yeah. It's gonna be the summer. It's three years since we did shorts. Chefs, yes.
Alex McCrery: We're doing this, this seasonal collection as kind of like a, um, hybrid with running, 'cause they're like increase in like chef and restaurant hospitality, running clubs.
So I think that this will be the year of the chef short.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah, that makes sense.
Jenny Goodman: We'll see. Please buy the chef shorts. [00:24:00] People please buy the chef shorts. Are there,
Josh Sharkey: are there like dream things you wanna make that you know, are more challenging or like tough to make work with costs that you really want to do but you haven't done yet?
Jenny Goodman: I mean, people ask us for shoes all the time. Um, so I feel like that's one that we've always wanted to collaborate on, but never, never gotten there. And shoes are really expensive and hard to make and I'm like, we'll just focus on work wear. Have
Josh Sharkey: you thought about equipment?
Alex McCrery: To a degree. I think there's like pieces that we've had fun iterating on, like the Cam cup or
Jenny Goodman: Coon Spoon.
We did a coon spoon, which was fun with the collaboration. Again, I think those are things that we want, you know, we're working on one with ssat coming up. Oh, cool. Yeah. Which will be fun for our pastry friends. And um, I think for equipment for us is like, there's a lot of people who do it really, really well.
Yeah. And so maybe there's things that we can do, put a little spit on it for fun, but a. It's not like we wanna also become Yeah. You know, a knife brand for instance, or something like that. Yeah,
Alex McCrery: yeah. Focus is like one of our core tenants, core tenants of [00:25:00] business. And I think that, you know, focusing on what we do really well, and then, like Jenny said, partnering with a brand that, um, is really great at making knives or partnering with a brand that is really known for their bags and their utility, um, or their shoes or whatever it is.
Then like, yeah, I think you can, you can't do everything really, really well. But I think you'd make friends with the people that can do it, so, yeah.
Josh Sharkey: No, it's so smart. I have to imagine though, that there's other industries that you could address or that probably have come and said, Hey, you make clothes for chefs, can you make them for us?
Wear, I mean, my, like I said, my wife is a floral designer and she was always like trying to find clothes for, you know, she would go to these big events that she'd have to have like, you know, clippers on her and all these other tools and you know, gloves for like the flowers. And she would just buy like overalls and kind of retrofit them.
I don't think they make clothes for, for florist, but I have to imagine there's other people, other industries that have asked you.
Jenny Goodman: There's so much space in hospitality too. It's, you know, so I think like. We look at hotel and think [00:26:00] about how can we make housekeeping uniforms better? How can we make valet uniforms better?
Um, there's 12 million people employed in, in hospitality across the country. So there's a lot of other folks within hospitality that we can focus on first, and then people do, you know, crossover Anyways, it's like artists love the jumpsuits. Photographers love the jumpsuits because they like that it's a one piece with all the pockets and the bells and whistles.
So we naturally cross over into some of these other like industries Yeah, too.
Josh Sharkey: Is there anything in the pipeline that people might not know about that you're working on? We have a
Alex McCrery: really exciting, um, at least I think it's exciting. It's a, uh, cross body, like small bag that will be able to carry knives, tools, like a small amount of knives and tools.
And then, you know, an apron roll up or it's, it's a small bag, so we have a backpack now that you can put a ton of stuff in. You can go to the market. You put all your uniform and everything in there. That's cool. And shoes. Um, but this will be a smaller version. So if you're just doing a dinner party or you're doing, um, an [00:27:00] event and you want to bring a few things with you, um, that'll be coming out October-ish.
Yeah. Nice.
Jenny Goodman: And that's one from the chef community with a chef friend who is saying, oh, I always use this sling bag when you guys gonna make a sling bag. And we were like, yeah,
Josh Sharkey: there you go. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so curious how you approach, like, the relationship now with, with the industry. I deal with this.
Obviously we service the industry as well, but in the, on the tech side, which is definitely different, a lot less tactile, you know, less touching of things, but we always want feedback. Uh, it is harder for us being, you know, digital. Right. But it seems like you, you can be in, you know, in front of these folks all the time, and obviously they're, they're our friends, but what is, how do you keep that relationship up with, with the industry?
Jenny Goodman: We believe in showing up in real life a lot. Right? So we started utility show partially for that. So we started like an independent trade show for independent brands and, and restaurants that you guys were mm-hmm. Thankfully a part of this past year. Um, so I think just being in community with [00:28:00] people in person is huge.
Right? It's like hospitality workers. Don't sit home, they go to a restaurant every single day. So we have to show up for them too. Um, so we try to show up at events and support events where we know the industry is wants to be and where it matters for them. And that gives us a good way to, Hey, what are you hearing?
What do you want? What do you need? How can we better service you? So I think that's, that's the strategy there where we get real feedback. What
Josh Sharkey: did you, what did you learn this year? Retro, if you, if we're gonna retro the, the utility from
Jenny Goodman: utility. Yeah. What did we learn this year? I think that what I've really learned is that, um, chefs and restaurateurs and up and coming ones really need business resources.
Um, so things like the pitch competition and supporting people in that way and providing like real community and learning experiences, whether you are a brand that sells clothing or some other service provider within the industry is actually really important. Oh, that's
Josh Sharkey: so interesting. Yeah. That's so true.
Wow. We actually, you know, we talked about this, uh, at NRA, uh, I'm sort of bouncing around a bit, but, but I remember [00:29:00] we were chatting about hiring cooks and service staff for your, for your, for your company. You know, we, in the beginning, that's all we hired was cooks Not a great idea for some roles and really great idea for, for others.
And then, you know, and then I sort of, everything in between. But how do you think about hiring for Tillett in terms of do they need to have experience? Do you wanna have a lot of experience? Is that over indexed over other things if you're hiring for marketing or sales or something like that?
Alex McCrery: I think it's important, you know, in all walks of life, and I think we talked about this too at the show, is that, you know, I think, uh, for my kids even, I, I think that the, having some time in hospitality is just a requirement.
You know, it doesn't have to be a lot, but three months, six months. Great. Um, but I think that you, you can't really understand how people work in the industry. You can't go to a restaurant as a diner and understand what someone's going through on that day [00:30:00] and, um, and learn to treat people with respect and appreciation.
Um, and you really get that from being in hospitality. And I think that when we look at, you know, hiring, um, it's not a requirement. Um, but it's certainly. Bodes well on your resume, even if, even if it was a short stint as a hostess or as a bartender or whatever it is that you, so that you get it right.
Like you can't, you know, be in what our industry and do what we do and service the hospitality industry if you don't understand what people are going through and, and how they're working and how they're living their life.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah. A majority of our team members have worked in restaurants at some point, and I think that is important.
And I think for us too, it's like it's. I don't say we have a hustle culture, but I like to see people who have hustle and just will figure anything out to get it done. Um, and to me, hustle doesn't mean working 12 hours a day and grinding. It means just like having that, like, I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna go and do it.
Um, [00:31:00] culture. And so for us it's like having that hospitality culture and then having a little bit of like Yeah. Internal hustle.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. How would your team explain what till it is to, to somebody on the street?
Jenny Goodman: Like elevator pitch wise? Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Like not you guys because Sure. I mean, you can if you want, but I'd love to, like, what do you think your team would say?
I
Jenny Goodman: think they would say that we're a premium hospitality work wear brand, um, making the best clothes out there, I hope. What did you say? Should we ask though? I
Josh Sharkey: mean, is there even another, I don't, I don't know of anybody else making, I,
Jenny Goodman: I think the thing that's different about us is that we see ourselves really as this like full blown work wear brand, right?
Yeah. So we're not just an apron company or we're not Yeah. You know, like a commodity, like chef coat company. We really care about dressing people really well, using premium ingredients from head to toe.
Alex McCrery: And the, I mean, the other big piece of what we are is that we're, we are people of hospitality. You don't see that in most of the other brands.
And that was the big problem with, with why the industry [00:32:00] didn't change when we started this company. I mean, the, the stalwart brands that I was wearing as a young cook were run by people in, in a high rise office somewhere that had no idea about, um, chef clothes. And you still see it today. I mean, you see like people coming in from other countries trying to like capitalize on New York market that don't actually work in the industry.
They're just here to like. Make money off of the cooks and the people in the kitchen. So, um, that's not us and that'll never be us. And I think that the industry really knows who and why that makes a difference, you know?
Josh Sharkey: Yeah, yeah. I always, I, I think of work wear right away, like high quality work wear, which I think is so interesting because I.
Yeah, it isn't just aprons, it isn't just, um, you know, one piece of clothing. And, and, and I don't think it's, for me at least as a consumer, it's more than just like clothes for Jeff's, it feels like, um, this new approach to Workwear, which is really unique. I think. I, I can't think of many. I. Brands in any industry that do that.
So it's, it's really cool.
Alex McCrery: Thank [00:33:00] you.
Josh Sharkey: I'm curious how you think about in terms of like running this company, we talked about this a little bit as well, like how you sort of delegate, you know, I know when I stepped into this tech company, I didn't know how to do anything in tech. I didn't know how to, like I.
Build technology or what marketing was, or sales or any of these things. Yeah. You have to, you have to manage these folks. Right. I'm curious what you've learned about how to delegate and, you know, make sure that you're promulgating your vision for this, but then letting the experts do what they need to do.
Jenny Goodman: I mean, I think we, together very much divide and conquer and have very different skill sets, so have really. Learned that it's best for us to like stay in our lanes and be our subject matter experts and ex and then we respect each other and the team members who are able to do the other things that we're not good at.
Alex McCrery: And I think we're also, I mean, we're fortunate at the moment that we have really great team members that are able to work very independently that, um, seem to really love what they're doing. Um, maybe they don't on in the backend, but they certainly seem like it when they're here. And I [00:34:00] hope that they are happy and enjoying it.
And I think like when you have a team that works that way, that the delegation is not as challenging. Yeah. 'cause you feel very comfortable handing things over. I have a person ally that I work with on the production side and she's just like a rock star. And so it's like, you know, delegating to her is, is as simple as like, you know, sharing my vision.
It's almost like the guy that was the pattern maker when I started the business that that just got it. You know? And that just makes it so easy.
Josh Sharkey: What do you think is like the most surprising, difficult thing about this? I'm sure there are things when you start this, you're like, I don't know how we're gonna figure this out.
But now fast forward, like what's really hard about this business that's that, that you didn't think would be hard when you started? I mean, the world is fucking hard on this business.
Alex McCrery: Did, did pandemic tariffs? Did tariffs, those things impact,
Jenny Goodman: I mean the, yeah, it's the things that are outside your control, I think are really, are sometimes challenging.
But then the, the thing is like you [00:35:00] can't, can't control them. So you just have to figure out how to always be like one step ahead. And we've been fortunate, you know, that Alex has done a really good job of like counter sourcing factories and so we have a pretty robust global supply chain now and um. I think just staying ahead of like what you can with the economics and the other thing that's more challenging that I didn't anticipate being challenging is like you're really responsible for people's livelihoods and that is like heavy in a great way, in a very positive, it makes you wanna make sure you're providing the best for everybody, but that
Josh Sharkey: it's a great motivator.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah. That was a motivator I did not expect.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. How do you measure success independent of, you know, financial success and. Reviews. I'm sure you get like, yeah. A good book. How do you think about like quantifying this is, this is working or it's not working?
Alex McCrery: I think success is like what would be paired for me with like joy that I find from the business.
And I think that, um, I see that joy usually when someone's [00:36:00] wearing the clothes that I'm not expecting, right? So if you're like, you know, just walking down the street in a different city and you know, you see somebody. Going into a coffee shop and he is got a pair of tilt pants on and like, and they're using it the way it was intended, right?
He is walking on the street, he's not at work, headed to work or whatnot. That just feels really special. I think we've had moments, and I still go back to like when we first made our women chef coat of like when, you know, female chefs would come in, try on the coat and just have this like. Total sort of like eye-opening moment that like, oh my God, there's a coat made for me.
It's not a four XL men's thing that I'm gonna have to roll up and twist around and, and tie in the back. Like those are the moments that feel like success. Aside from. Like you said, the the financial and the number of employees that we can, you know, bring in and those kind of things.
Jenny Goodman: Yeah, I mean we started the company 'cause we wanted people to feel proud during their workday and like when you actually just happen to run into somebody wearing the clothes and they look really good and they feel, and you can tell that they're like happy and feel good.
It's, [00:37:00] we were in Mexico City in February. We were walking down the street in Polanco and there was this adorable little ice cream shop, and they were wearing these gorgeous, colorful aprons and we were like, oh my God, those are our aprons in Mexico City. And they looked perfect in the space and everybody was like, you know, they were vibing and it was, yeah, it's like moments like that that are like so cool.
Okay.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Actually, you know what, I have a question for you. What do your kids say that you do? I think they know that we make clothes. Do they refer to you as a clothes maker?
Jenny Goodman: Yeah. They say yeah. Yeah. And they wanna, you know, they like, love the business and Yeah. They say, so what our kids say is that Mama's on the phone, on phone calls all day because actually mama's on phone calls all day and papa cooks in the kitchen at it and draws the clothes on paper.
I think it's like what they think we do. Pretty much,
Josh Sharkey: yeah. I mean, I, I haven't worked in kitchens in since long before I had kids. Uh, I cook at home a lot, but my, my, my kids still, I. Call me a chef. I'm just like, they, they, they even see me going to work. [00:38:00] Right. And they often, they're like, oh, daddy's going to work.
But they, once a chef, you're always a chef, right? Yeah. They just always, my daughter is always like, you know, will say, oh, my daddy is a chef. I'm like, it's so weird that they think that, but they
Jenny Goodman: still refer to Alex as a chef too. Yeah,
Josh Sharkey: that's, yeah, that's, I, I was curious, but I, I, I assume it's cooler than business, man.
Yeah, that's for sure. What, like what are your biggest influences in terms of. Design and, and creativity. I'm sure there are some chefs, but just generally this is also fashion, right? So, so who, who are the people that, that influence you guys the most?
Alex McCrery: I mean, for me it's the people on the street in this, in the neighborhood and, and in the city.
You know, I think, um, like I mentioned earlier, the Lower East Side has, you know, got the street wear culture that has just got a lot of history to it. It's also an interesting neighborhood in the sense that it's, there's a lot of young people. People with, you know, low, moderate income that are still coming up with very interesting ways to wear their clothes.
So there's a coffee shop down the street that I [00:39:00] go to every day and half my reason is to go for coffee, obviously the other half is to see what people are wearing. There's different neighborhoods where you get different things, right? You go to Tribeca or the West Village and you're gonna see like the designer labels and those kind of things.
And those just, those are fun and exciting, but to me it's not as interesting. I like to see what people are doing, you know, matching. You know, pulling things from vintage or from, or you know, editing their clothes on their own. Um, and I think those are the kind of things that are inspiring the big labels.
And also I think we try and take some of that and see what we can I. Into our brand as well.
Jenny Goodman: And then from a business side, to me it's like, I, I wanna be like Carhartt, right? So I think like how Carhartt has been adopted from construction Workwear. Yeah. And to like modern street style that you pretty much see all over the Lower East Side is something that I think we as a brand can aspire to.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I never, I never thought about that. It's funny in fashion there is sort of this, I don't know, it's probably not the same with what, what you all do, but [00:40:00] it's of similar to. Like the upper echelon of fine dining, where like the, the new innovative things happen, whatever, at Noma, right?
And then five years later you see people using garam in, you know, the, the, the restaurant down the street. And it happens in fashion. Right? A lot as well. I remember watching Deborah Wars Prada where that, you know, like you see that color that you're wearing, right? That actually came from, do you guys notice that where there are things that you see like, like sort of downstream, like years later that you saw, like, you know, a couple years ago that are now prevalent?
Alex McCrery: I think it happens all the time in fashion, you know, and, and, and in life. I mean, you, you're imitating the, the cool things out there and hopefully
Josh Sharkey: you all are the ones doing that now, and then you can
Alex McCrery: Yeah, I mean, I like to try and do what we can to stay at the top of that and, and be the influencer. I mean, sometimes you're gonna pick up, uh, things from other sources and.
Get inspired by them. And I, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that that's, if that's what people want and that's what's exciting, then
Josh Sharkey: yeah.
Alex McCrery: Um, there's a difference between like copying [00:41:00] someone else's designs and being inspired by some. Something happening in, in fashion or food culture or whatnot.
I
Jenny Goodman: mean, I think we saw that with a jumpsuit. A few, like when we launched, we launched the jumpsuit in 2016, so it's been almost nine years and we were like the first work wear brand. Obviously Dickies has had a jumpsuit forever, but we were the first modern ones to do that. And then it's like Madewell had, then you saw it at like Madewell and at every, yeah.
Then like brands like Alex Mill came out and then had, then that was their big piece, and that was after we had launched our work wear version in 2016 of like a better, more premium jumpsuit.
Josh Sharkey: That's kind, feel good. I feel like you guys definitely influenced, made will making this
Jenny Goodman: jumpsuit. I don't know if we did, but, um, it was just like a,
Alex McCrery: yeah, it feels good.
I mean, it's, uh, I mean, there's parts sometimes where you're like a little annoyed if someone's, you know, copying something, but then there's a lot of times where you, you do you feel like, oh wow, we like inspired to be here. Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: You know? Yeah. I feel like an art or, or anything creative. Everything is a copy of something else, right?
It's a deriv. Everything is derivative of something, you know, from before. Uh, I mean, I'm sure there are some things that are net new, but like [00:42:00] not much. Not much in this day. Yeah, not much. Yeah. Let's talk about utility for a minute. I think I do understand more now why you started it, right? Just to connect more with the community.
But how did it start and what's the vision for it?
Jenny Goodman: Yeah. It started, so, you know, we had shown at. The larger national trade show before and felt that we didn't really connect with our right audience. That we You mean NRA? Yeah, at NRA. And we felt like we had gotten lost in the sauce. Um, and then, you know, we didn't feel vision and values aligned after, um, the pandemic and recovering from that.
We just, we felt like independence needed something different than was being represented, and there wasn't a space for that. So we took the budget from that, that we were, had been planning to use for NRA, pulled out of the show and did sort of what we called our preheat. So the trade show light version, utility preheat, we called it.
And that was in 2023 where we got some sponsors and test out some of the activations that we wanted to test. Should we do the larger trade show? Um, and for the same budget we basically broke even and had [00:43:00] like quadruple the impressions.
Josh Sharkey: It's amazing
Jenny Goodman: within that day. So from there, that was telling to us that, hey, we do, we're onto something here.
So 2024 was our first year of doing the full two day trade show. Um, and then this year and 2025, we doubled the amount of exhibitors, the sponsors, we doubled. Um, and yeah, we had over like 1100 people come through this year. Attendees from the industry gave away $20,000 and yeah, it was really fun.
Alex McCrery: Yeah. We basically took the same like concept of why we started till It and, and transferred it to this like trade show event idea and the idea with Till It was that the people that were running, you know, work wear, were not involved and didn't care about the people wearing it and dealing with it and felt this way.
The same way about the trade show is that it felt like this. Financial transaction that you were there to make them money. Right? It's so expensive. Um, the ROI was very [00:44:00] hard to measure. It didn't, wasn't fun. The exhibitors didn't have fun. The people coming through didn't really have fun. It was a shopping event where you're like there on a mission to find something, see something perhaps.
And the same thing with the exhibitors. You're there on a mission to like sell something, to get customers to like make a transaction. And I think that the big thing that we've done differently with utility is that everyone has a good time. We're in it for, for everybody. Sure. It's, it's a a profit center, right?
We're gonna make money so we can keep doing it. You have to do that in business, um, otherwise you won't have business. But we make it, it's a fraction of the price for exhibitors. Exhibitors enjoy being there. It seems so far the people that come are really having a great time because we're putting in all these other things.
There's food competitions, there's free tattoos, there's music, there's like ways to connect and network. There's mental health services. There's. You know, panels, I mean, it's, it's, it's more than just this transactional trade show that's happening on that really big level.
Josh Sharkey: When will you start planning for the, [00:45:00] for next year?
Like at what
Jenny Goodman: time are year? We have our post more tomorrow, so basically tomorrow it, we'll start year. It takes a minute. Yeah. Yeah. I know. We just, it just was last week. Um, no, I, it's, it's like a full-time job, um, in and above itself, but it's really, I think, something impactful and yeah, like Alex said, it's a real discovery platform for the industry, so.
We'll probably we'll start really planning in earnest by the end of the summer.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yeah. Is the name till Deriv a derivative of utility? Correct. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Gotcha. Well, we're gonna cook in a minute. Yeah. But I'd say, let's leave this on some advice because, you know, in the restaurant industry, uh, there is a path to just cook, uh, for the rest of your career.
And there's lots of people that do that and do it well. Uh, but there's also tons of opportunities to do other things. And we're both sitting here as, uh, you know, representatives of that. I would love maybe if you could share like some advice for folks that are cooking now or in front of house now in service, that are in restaurants that want to do something [00:46:00] different, what you would tell them.
Jenny Goodman: Don't be afraid to ask people for advice and don't be afraid to just chat with people about your ideas and seek out community and, and mentorship and that's how you really learn and, and grow your network.
Alex McCrery: Yeah, and I would say I. You know, I agree with all that. And I would also add that, um, that there's lots of low risk, low cost ways to test out your idea, your concept, uh, whatever it may be, whether it's a new chef wear brand or something interesting in tech.
I think there's ways to do it and to be, to really be resourceful and creative in that way so that you can try it without getting in over your head and making something that's sick. You know, a, a real high risk situation, um, which most like new restaurants are. Yeah. Are, are that, so I know that's daunting to, um, a young entrepreneur, entrepreneur wanna be, is the risk.
And so there's, there's lots of ways to, to be [00:47:00] creative and avoid some of that risk. Yeah. So I would say do that.
Josh Sharkey: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like folks in restaurants, I come from the kitchen, so I'll be a little bit biased here, but I'm sure it's on both sides. For sure on both sides. Front s back of the house are uniquely qualified to do things like this, you know, high stress environment.
You have to understand hospitality, obviously you have to work your ass off. You have to be really organized. You have to understand Museum Plus and how to plan and you're not gonna make a lot of money for a long time. It's a restaurant and it's gonna be the same thing if you start a business. Sure. So you, you're basically like already set up for most of the things.
The hardest thing is really just decide. I can go and start this and, uh, I love that you guys did and thank you for what you've built. It's amazing and it is inspiring. It really is like what you guys are building. I know you're just getting started, so I'm excited to see what next utility next year's utility is and what you guys, uh, do when you come up with your shorts.
Jenny Goodman: Pair of shorts is coming to you. Yes. Thank you.
Josh Sharkey: Let's cook. [00:48:00]
Jenny Goodman:Yeah.
Josh Sharkey: Cool everybody.
Thanks for tuning podcast. The music from the show is a remix of the Song Art Mirror by an old friend, hip hop artist, fresh Daily. For show notes and more, visit getmeez.com/podcast. That's G-E-T-M- double E- Z.com/podcast. If you enjoyed the show, I'd love it if you can share it with the fellow entrepreneurs and culinary pros and give us a five star rating wherever you listen to your podcast.
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